Correlating IQ and STEM performance

[symbolipoint]

@OmCheeto,
One must worry about development time and conditioning time. Description gave strikes like a Get Rich Quick Scheme.

 

[mathwonk]

In some PhD programs, one earns a masters by progressing far enough to pass the prelim exams. A long time ago, I walked into the UWa math dept, was allowed to sit for, and passed, their math PhD prelims in one sitting, never having registered for any class there. Did I earn a masters in that one day (or maybe it was a week), or was it done over the several prior years I spent preparing on my own, while teaching community college? My point is one can earn an exam- based BS in the time it takes to sit for the exam, provided one knows all the material.

 

[Matterwave]

A long time ago, I walked into the UWa math dept, was allowed to sit for, and passed, their math PhD prelims in one sitting, never having registered for any class there.

You just love taking tests that much?

 

[mathwonk]

I do sometimes enjoy taking tests, but my goal was to earn a PhD. After that sitting, UWa offered me a fellowship. Test taking can be a profit - making enterprise, if you are good at it.

I enjoyed meat lugging too, but it only paid $4 an hour. A multi -year fellowship for a few hours work beats that hollow, at least financially, even if it doesn't feel as beneficial physically.

 

[bhobba]

Is that even possible to get a BS in one year?

Yes - by competency based degrees and dedication.

They are fully accedited degrees like the one at East Texas A&M

https://www.etamu.edu/cbe/

Thanks
Bill

 

[sbrothy]

my 2 cents:
To my knowledge, IQ tests aim to measure in part:
vocabulary, analogies, memory, numerical problem solving, spatial skills, and mental speed.
These attributes are helpful in pursuing stem subjects, but possibly even more important are:
interest, curiosity, creativity, and especially stamina/persistence.

That said, in my uni grad math program, essentially no candidate succeeded who had lower than a 640 math GRE score. I admitted several unfortunate cases before I realized that sobering fact, having previously disparaged the meaningfulness of standardized tests. I learned that recommendation letters are indeed helpful, but comparatively speaking, standardized scores don't lie.

It doesn't really surpise me. Why else would they be so prevalent and popular among employers etc?

I've seen several applications used to design standardized tests and it's an entire industry.

 

[jedishrfu]

I don't think you can suppress geniuses like Einstein, von Braun or Gauss. They'll make themselves noticed.

And yet Ramanujan almost did slip through the cracks if not for some special people in India and Hardy and Littlewood in England.

 

[mathwonk]

Thanks for motivating me look this up. It seems Ramanujan's first two attempts at wider recognition were via letters in late 1912 to Hobson and H.F.Baker, mathematicians known to me for (books on) analysis and algebraic geometry respectively. His letter in January 1913 το Ηardy, a number theorist, was almost immediately appreciated deeply. It seems he just had to address someone who could appreciate what he was doing, i.e. a number theorist of 1st rank. Fortunately it didn't take all that long. But sadly, it may be that his time in England, with its colder weather, may have contributed to his premature death.

 

[ohwilleke]

I don't think you can suppress geniuses like Einstein, von Braun or Gauss. They'll make themselves noticed.

I think that you are almost surely wrong. When I first moved to Denver, I looked at detailed statistics about various kinds of educational outcomes at different high schools in the city. One of those was West High School which had the worst outcomes in the city.

In particular, they tracked kids who had tested as "gifted" on an IQ test in early elementary school (a cutoff of roughly 135 IQ), and how they fared in high school and whether they went to college immediately after high school, however many years later.

At West HS only 1% of kids who were tested as gifted on an IQ tests in elementary school went to college. At some other public high schools in the same city, more than 95% of kids tested as gifted on an IQ test in elementary school went to college.

Tested IQ basically measures potential to benefit from education. But it is squandered if the educational opportunities provided don't utilize that potential.

 

[sbrothy]

Yeah, I recognized that I have to follow the point you made. I regret nothing!

 

[Mantirion]

I think yes, it does correlate. As a member of Mensa and having Master in informatics, I have seen some discussions and articles about this topic. But the correlation is mostly about minimum IQ needed. So if somebody has for example IQ 85, he/she will struggle in STEM education. But somewhere in range 110 to 120 the advantage dissipates and there are other more important factors like working hard. Actually for example there are more Nobel winners with IQ around 120 than around 150 and my guess the same is valid for successful STEM graduates.

 

[WWGD]

I think that you are almost surely wrong. When I first moved to Denver, I looked at detailed statistics about various kinds of educational outcomes at different high schools in the city. One of those was West High School which had the worst outcomes in the city.

In particular, they tracked kids who had tested as "gifted" on an IQ test in early elementary school (a cutoff of roughly 135 IQ), and how they fared in high school and whether they went to college immediately after high school, however many years later.

At West HS only 1% of kids who were tested as gifted on an IQ tests in elementary school went to college. At some other public high schools in the same city, more than 95% of kids tested as gifted on an IQ test in elementary school went to college.

Tested IQ basically measures potential to benefit from education. But it is squandered if the educational opportunities provided don't utilize that potential.

Scientist Dave Epstein, who studies success and performance, agrees with you here.

 

[WWGD]

I think yes, it does correlate. As a member of Mensa and having Master in informatics, I have seen some discussions and articles about this topic. But the correlation is mostly about minimum IQ needed. So if somebody has for example IQ 85, he/she will struggle in STEM education. But somewhere in range 110 to 120 the advantage dissipates and there are other more important factors like working hard. Actually for example there are more Nobel winners with IQ around 120 than around 150 and my guess the same is valid for successful STEM graduates.

(Dis)advantage?