Cosmic Rays could reveal if we're actually living in a simulation?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the hypothesis that we may be living in a simulation, specifically examining whether experiments with cosmic rays could provide evidence for or against this idea. Participants explore theoretical implications, scientific evidence, and the nature of simulations in relation to reality.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question how any experiment could disprove the simulation hypothesis, suggesting that any findings would simply be part of the simulation itself.
  • Others argue that scientists propose tests and rebuttals to explore the hypothesis, even if the outcomes could be interpreted as part of a simulation.
  • A participant notes that a referenced paper does not claim we live in a simulation but rather states we do not live in a "bad" simulation.
  • One participant discusses the presence of coding in nature, suggesting that while it does not prove a simulation, it indicates that coding is a familiar concept in nature.
  • Another participant asserts that there is no known scientific evidence supporting the simulation hypothesis and critiques its utility in scientific discourse.
  • Some participants highlight that the paper suggests if we were in a bad simulation, we would notice, implying that our current experiences do not reflect this scenario.
  • A humorous analogy is made comparing the nature of the universe to operating systems, suggesting that if it were a simulation, it would exhibit characteristics of various OSs, which it does not.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the simulation hypothesis, with no consensus reached. Some believe it is an untestable idea, while others engage with the implications of the hypothesis and the nature of scientific inquiry related to it.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the limitations of the hypothesis, including its lack of predictive power and the challenge of testing it scientifically. The discussion also reflects on the philosophical implications of proving or disproving such a hypothesis.

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phinds said:
How could ANYTHING disprove that? What ever you come up with, it's just part of the simulation.
then why do scientists come up with these tests and rebuttal?
 
Endypanzer said:
then why do scientists come up with these tests and rebuttal?

because this is all part of a simulation to annoy people.

Zz.
 
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Did anyone actually read the paper? (This is rhetorical)

It doesn't say we don't live in a simulation. It says we don't live in a bad simulation.
 
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ZapperZ said:
because this is all part of a simulation to annoy people.

Zz.
Vanadium 50 said:
Did anyone actually read the paper? (This is rhetorical)

It doesn't say we don't live in a simulation. It says we don't live in a bad simulation.
is there any scientific evidence for this hypothesis?
 
There is some heavy-duty coding in Nature(the human genome in the DNA molecule is roughly 3.3GB long but there are other versions of the code for other beings and plants):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coding_regionSo coding must be something nature is familiar with. Error correcting coding as well.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22771982

While this does not say the world is simulated, the existence of codes and error correcting codes says that coding is not unheard of in nature and may even suggest coding may have wider applications, e.g. in physics(are we retreaving the fundamental code of Nature by writing down equations?). Who knows
 
Endypanzer said:
is there any scientific evidence for this hypothesis?

There is no known evidence for the hypothesis that we live in a simulation. Furthermore, it's a useless hypothesis as it answers no questions and makes no useful predictions.

AFAIK there are no physicists losing sleep over this concept, despite what you might conclude from the article from Business Insider. Logically, any scientific experiment's outcome could be "fudged" in a suitable simulation.

Please note that many people believe we live on a flat Earth despite all the evidence to the contrary. So if you believe we live in a simulation, I would say that is more of a religious hypothesis than a scientific one.
 
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Where we live in a perfect simulation is of course undecidable, just as one cannot prove or disprove we are all brains in vats or the universe was created last Thursday with a perfect history, or anyone of a number of equally dopey ideas.

But that's not what this paper (has anyone read it? That's rhetorical as well) says. It says that if we are living in a bad simulation, we would notice. Since we don't, we are not.
 
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Vanadium 50 said:
It says that if we are living in a bad simulation, we would notice.
If the operating system of nature would be macOS/OS X, nature would be cute everywhere. It isn't.
If it would be Windows, nature would be annoying with occasional blue screens or bootups into BIOS. We don't see this in nature.
The Universe is hard to understand, expanding and seems to never get quite finished. This tells us that if there is an OS, it's likely some sort of Linux. :smile:
 
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