News Could Iraq Have Achieved Freedom Without US Intervention?

[Art]

Not that I expect this to actually get through to you, but American executive authority is restricted by constitution and opposition in both law and fact. Therefore, President Bush does not meet the definition's criteria for unrestricted, one man rule.

Rev Prez

tut tut so you only want to use the dictionary definitions selectively.
Here let me help you...

dic·ta·tor ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dkttr, dk-t-)
n.

An absolute ruler.
A tyrant; a despot.
An ancient Roman magistrate appointed temporarily to deal with an immediate crisis or emergency.
One who dictates: These initials are those of the dictator of the letter.

ty·rant ( P ) Pronunciation Key (trnt)
n.
An absolute ruler who governs without restrictions.
A ruler who exercises power in a harsh, cruel manner.
An oppressive, harsh, arbitrary person.

 

[russ_watters]

I'm sure I'm not the only one who sees the irony in a 'Shrubite' questioning the legitimacy of other countries' elections.

Oh please, are you really that far off the deep end? A conspiracy theorist?

Russ, we are not talking 'beliefs' here, the way Hitler rose to power is a historical fact. Check it out for yourself if you think I'm inventing it

When you leave out key facts, what you are left with can only be called a belief. Unless you do it on purpose, that is...

...if you want to use strict dictionary definitions rather than popular usage then 'shrub' is also a dictator.

Wow, Art - Milosevich, Hitler, and Hussein weren't dictators, but Bush is? That's really out there.

 

[Art]

Oh please, are you really that far off the deep end? A conspiracy theorist?

Conspiracy theory?? So the election irregularities in Bush's brother's state when he won his first term in office is only a theory? Duh right

When you leave out key facts, what you are left with can only be called a belief. Unless you do it on purpose, that is...

Which key facts would that be Russ? Your assertion that Hitler organised the burning of the Reichstag is unproven and irrelevant to Hitler's perfectly legally endowed authority and so therefore aren't you falling prey to the conspiracy theory mentality you just accused me of? Feel free btw to post any facts I've omitted that are relevant to the legal authority Hitler held.

Wow, Art - Milosevich, Hitler, and Hussein weren't dictators, but Bush is? That's really out there.

Having difficulty understanding the point again Russ? Your friend Prez was playing semantics with the word dictator so I was helping him out with some definitions he'd missed.

 

[Burnsys]

Conspiracy theory?? Your assertion that Hitler organised the burning of the Reichstag is unproven and irrelevant to Hitler's perfectly legally endowed authority and so therefore aren't you falling prey to the conspiracy theory mentality you just accused me of?

Wow russ! you really sayid the reichstag was put in fire by hitler? and you are also talking about people manipulating elections?
Damn russ you disapointed me... you are nothing more than a conspiracy theorist

 

[Mercator]

Others will notice you argue that dictatorships can transition peacefully because non-dictatorships do. Whether dishonesty or rank ignorance is behind this latest crazy outburst of yours remains to be seen.



The Velvet Revolution spread in 1989, three years before the Maastricht was signed. This is getting old real quick.

Rev Prez

Which non-dictatorships are you talking about? Franco was not a dictator? Absolute despots were no dictators? Or are you referring to someone who dictates to students, then I understand your confusion.

Europe did not exist before Maastricht? It was the transformative power of Europe that inspired Czechs to take their lot in their own hands. Read Vaclav Pavel. Just like most other east European former soviet-style dictatorships and now Turkey, which was not a dictatorship, but an oppressive state.

 

[Rev Prez]

tut tut so you only want to use the dictionary definitions selectively.

I want to use them appropriately and meaningfully. There's nothing to discuss if you're only interested in definitions that serve to insult and disparage.

dictatorship

n : a form of government in which the ruler is an absolute dictator (not restricted by a constitution or laws or opposition etc.)

Rev Prez

 

[Rev Prez]

Which non-dictatorships are you talking about?

The one you erroneously labeled a dictatorship--Turkey.

Franco was not a dictator? Absolute despots were no dictators?

What's your point?

Europe did not exist before Maastricht?

The European Union did not exist before Maastricht, and you claimed that incentive of European Union membership was the chief reason for the collapse of the Eastern Bloc.

It was the transformative power of Europe that inspired Czechs to take their lot in their own hands. Read Vaclav Pavel.

You mean Vaclav Havel, and he was in prison in 1989 and didn't start pushing for CZ's entrance into the EU until after 1992. Face it, you ****ed up the dates.

...and now Turkey, which was not a dictatorship, but an oppressive state.

Which has nothing to do with your point that membership in a non-existent organization was the primary reason the Eastern Bloc broke away from the ailing Soviet Union, and does nothing to establish your hypothesis that dictatorships, on their own, transform into democracies quickly enough to satisfy international interests.

Rev Prez

 

[Mercator]

The European Union did not exist before Maastricht, and you claimed that incentive of European Union membership was the chief reason for the collapse of the Eastern Bloc.



You mean Vaclav Havel, and he was in prison in 1989 and didn't start pushing for CZ's entrance into the EU until after 1992. Face it, you ****ed up the dates.



Which has nothing to do with your point that membership in a non-existent organization was the primary reason the Eastern Bloc broke away from the ailing Soviet Union, and does nothing to establish your hypothesis that dictatorships, on their own, transform into democracies quickly enough to satisfy international interests.

Rev Prez

Read again. I said Europe.
I am typing with two fingers and I am dyslexic, just FYI.

You don't get the point, I f** nothing up, the dates are unimportant. It's Europe that made people like Havel rise up against their oppressors.

Stop rewriting my words and try to be honest and read only what's there. I deliberaltely speak of "network Europe" if you don't know what that is, have a look at www.markleonard.net
Your desparate attempt to get me on dates has no meaning. "network Europe" was born right after world war 2 and developed in stages BLUE, EGKS, EC, only the last stage of which is called EU. This great idea created the largest economic block on Earth and has enormous transformation power for all countries in it's sphere of influence, in so far that this "soft power" is now showing it's strenght as opposed to the agression of the US. Turkey is a very good example, being transformed from an oppresive state into a real western democracy without military pressure. The fact that they did not bend for the Us when they wanted to operate in Iraq from Turkey shows the strenght of the Euroepan attaraction. You are free to believe otherwise, but I just say this and don't try to misinterprete my words. If you want to be blind for what's really happening in the world, be my guest, just don't argue with the seeing.

 

[Rev Prez]

Read again. I said Europe.

No, you said: "The Czech republic is a prime example of the transformative force of the EU." If you actually meant Europe, then you'd at least explain to us what "transformative power" did Europe have in the 1980s that it didn't have in the decades before. Was it the opposition to American deployment of Pershing missiles in Central Europe? Was it Thatcher's revolution in the welfare state of Britain? What about Europe caused the Velvet Revolution?

I am typing with two fingers and I am dyslexic, just FYI.

I'm not fishing for pity. Why are you?

You don't get the point, I f** nothing up, the dates are unimportant. It's Europe that made people like Havel rise up against their oppressors.

Then do you care to explain yourself or is this something you take on faith?

Stop rewriting my words and try to be honest...

Try to be consistent. You now say you meant "Europe" when you wrote "EU." I'd love to see you defend this one.

I deliberaltely speak of "network Europe" if you don't know what that is, have a look at www.markleonard.net

You mind explaining where you're going with this, and how this link relates to it?

Your desparate attempt to get me on dates has no meaning.

Sure it does. You've already backed away from EU. Now you can elaborate on this latest revision.

"network Europe" was born right after world war 2 and developed in stages BLUE, EGKS, EC., only the last stage of which is called EU.

EC is fifty years old. So what happened between in 1989 that didn't happen in the five decades before? The same goes for your Turkey business, who didn't have a Soviet overseer preventing them from seeking rapproachment with the Europeans for decades before the end of the Cold War.

If you want to be blind.

I don't want to be blind, I just want to know what you've got on hand that would leave anyone to believe you're not piling on the bull****.

Rev Prez

 

[Mercator]

I'm not fishing for pity. Why are you?




Rev Prez

Who is the mentor here? This is over the limit and I don't accept this.
If you go back, you will see that this individual cosntantly crooects typos, I just want to tell him the reason why I have so many, hoping he would get the hint and stop trying to humiliate me.

 

[Hurkyl]

If you want to report a post, use the triangle-shaped icon in the bottom-left corner of that post.

 

[Mercator]

No, you said: "The Czech republic is a prime example of the transformative force of the EU." If you actually meant Europe, then you'd at least explain to us what "transformative power" did Europe have in the 1980s that it didn't have in the decades before. Was it the opposition to American deployment of Pershing missiles in Central Europe? Was it Thatcher's revolution in the welfare state of Britain? What about Europe caused the Velvet Revolution?



I'm not fishing for pity. Why are you?



Then do you care to explain yourself or is this something you take on faith?



Try to be consistent. You now say you meant "Europe" when you wrote "EU." I'd love to see you defend this one.



You mind explaining where you're going with this, and how this link relates to it?



Sure it does. You've already backed away from EU. Now you can elaborate on this latest revision.



EC is fifty years old. So what happened between in 1989 that didn't happen in the five decades before? The same goes for your Turkey business, who didn't have a Soviet overseer preventing them from seeking rapproachment with the Europeans for decades before the end of the Cold War.



I don't want to be blind, I just want to know what you've got on hand that would leave anyone to believe you're not piling on the bull****.

Rev Prez

But on the issue, you don't get me. I have explained that the EU is the (maybe not even final) result of decades long development in Western Europe. You can argue about terminology as much as you want, but you have not given any counter argument to the generally accepted thesis that the EU, EC, Western Europe or perhaps you prefer to call it Old Europe has had a major transformative effect on the surrounding East block countries.
What you don't seem to know is that the idea of the EU was born just after the war and that since then it has been a project under development, under different names and forms. That's why I prefer to call it a modern "network Europe", as opposed to the old fashioned federal US of A.

Let me give an analogy to make it clear:
"Arpanet has had enormous transformative power on people all over the world". YOU will then argue, not it's INTERNET. But we're both talking about the same phenomenon, aren't we?

So, since you have no further arguments to disprove my statement about "network Europe", but limit yourself to semantics, we now know that you have nothing to add to this discussion.

 

[Evo]

I am typing with two fingers and I am dyslexic, just FYI.

I'm not fishing for pity. Why are you?

Rev, Mercator was simply explaining his typing skills, no need to be mean.

Mercator, have you tried using the spell check option? It may help, I use it.

 

[Mercator]

Rev, Mercator was simply explaining his typing skills, no need to be mean.

Mercator, have you tried using the spell check option? It may help, I use it.

The spell check potion? I need some of that!