Could the Ukraine situation start a US-Russia war?

[Jarvis323]

@pinball1970 At this point there is so much misinformation about this war from both sides that I personally just stopped following any of it.

Truth is the first casualty in war... as they say.

Vladimir Zhoga, the leader of the Russian Sparta Battalion (of the DPR), was killed recently. He is known for torture and execution of POWs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparta_Battalion

Here are two headlines, one from each side. The first one says he is a neo-nazi war lord. The second one says he is a hero of Russia, who was killed by neo-nazis while protecting civilians. Russia certainly does claim a starkly different reality than the West.

Russian separatist warlord who led Neo-Nazi 'Sparta' mob is shot dead during battle in eastern Ukraine town in fresh blow to Putin's floundering invasion

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...rta-mob-shot-dead-battle-eastern-Ukraine.html

Executive Order awarding title of Hero of Russian ... - Kremlin

link to official Russian news, might not work:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiQ-b2V07T2AhW2JUQIHV9sBAgQFnoECA8QAQ&url=http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/67920&usg=AOvVaw1rbFRQ5zB-RGZWfhUYuGr1

 

[StevieTNZ]

China's foreign minister on Monday called Russia his country's “most important strategic partner” as Beijing continues to refuse to condemn the invasion of Ukraine despite growing pressure from the US and European Union to use its influence to rein Moscow in.

Wang Yi said Chinese ties with Moscow constitute “one of the most crucial bilateral relationships in the world."

-- https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europ...cks-relationship-with-russia-despite-invasion

 

[Keith_McClary]

Most of those "Russian vodkas" were not actually from Russia. The distillers are working on less misleading labels.

 

[Klystron]

Good luck with that!

And may there be more of it than Elser has had!

Thanks for linking to this update of "Eller's" life. Using ingenuity and clockwork mechanism knowledge to fight his war against tyranny reminds me of the early life in Germany of fellow Vietnam War veteran Dieter Dengler.

 

[hutchphd]

Most of those "Russian vodkas" were not actually from Russia. The distillers are working on less misleading labels.

My inebriation seems much better knowing that...I was trying to drink all evidence of my potential disloyalty. Successfully as it turns out.

 

[Jarvis323]

Russian Police Investigate the Crime of Writing "No to War" in the Snow

 

[Astronuc]

Most of those "Russian vodkas" were not actually from Russia. The distillers are working on less misleading labels.

Ukrainian vodkas?

 

[Astronuc]

China's foreign minister on Monday called Russia his country's “most important strategic partner”

Wang Yi said Chinese ties with Moscow constitute “one of the most crucial bilateral relationships in the world."

-- https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europ...cks-relationship-with-russia-despite-invasion

Partners in crime.

 

[Jarvis323]

Partners in crime.

From 2014.

China and Russia signed a $400-billion gas supply deal on Wednesday, securing the world’s top energy user a major source of cleaner fuel and opening up a new market for Moscow as it risks losing European customers over the Ukraine crisis.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...gn-400-billion-gas-deal-idUSBREA4K07K20140521

And from last month.

Russia has agreed a 30-year contract to supply gas to China via a new pipeline and will settle the new gas sales in euros, bolstering an energy alliance with Beijing amid Moscow's strained ties with the West over Ukraine and other issues.

Gazprom , which has a monopoly on Russian gas exports by pipeline, agreed to supply Chinese state energy major CNPC with 10 billion cubic metres of gas a year, the Russian firm and a Beijing-based industry official said.

First flows through the pipeline, which will connect Russia's Far East region with northeast China, were due to start in two to three years, the source said in comments that were later followed by an announcement of the deal by Gazprom.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-...as-deal-using-new-pipeline-source-2022-02-04/

 

[Jarvis323]

The conflict may extend to space.

 

[StevieTNZ]

New Zealand is on a list of countries considered "unfriendly" by Russia. Nonetheless, Putin is one individual named as being banned from entering NZ.

 

[Keith_McClary]

New Zealand is on a list of countries considered "unfriendly" by Russia.

Well, you are not allowing their airlines to use your airspace.

 

[StevieTNZ]

Well, you are not allowing their airlines to use your airspace.

Which we have every right to impose.

 

[DennisN]

New Zealand is on a list of countries considered "unfriendly" by Russia.

Welcome to the club. All EU member countries are on that list now, along with others.

The list includes "Australia, UK, EU countries, Iceland, Canada, Liechtenstein, Monaco, New Zealand, Norway, Korea, San Marino, Singapore, USA, Taiwan, Ukraine, Montenegro, Switzerland, Japan," according to a tweet from Russian outlet Ria translated by CNN analyst Brianna Golodryga.

Source: Russia reacts to global condemnation of its Ukraine war as its currency collapses by publishing list of 'unfriendly countries' (Business Insider)

 

[Jarvis323]

Welcome to the club. All EU member countries are on that list now, along with others.

Source: Russia reacts to global condemnation of its Ukraine war as its currency collapses by publishing list of 'unfriendly countries' (Business Insider)

The list includes "Australia, UK, EU countries, Iceland, Canada, Liechtenstein, Monaco, New Zealand, Norway, Korea, San Marino, Singapore, USA, Taiwan,

This is awkward. I guess Russia is testing China's plege of unconditional partership.

 

[strangerep]

A couple days ago there was a survey in MIPT "Do you support the war". About 90% said "no"

Doesn't that mean those 90% will soon be imprisoned?

Since that I have been thinking what must these "10%" have in their heads? I do not know.

A sense of self-preservation perhaps?

 

[Filip Larsen]

The conflict may extend to space.

Ars Technica also ran some articles on this:
https://arstechnica.com/science/202...al-space-station-and-prevent-the-dreaded-gap/
https://arstechnica.com/science/202...t-chief-urges-us-russia-cooperation-in-space/

I guess it will be increasingly difficult to find any area of "world affairs" not being affected by this surreal and shocking departure from structure, particularly so in areas where the (official) Russia already in recent times have demonstrated they don't like to play by common rules. In that context I must admit worrying about the impact on space missions is currently pretty far down on my personal worry list.

 

[neilparker62]

-- https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europ...cks-relationship-with-russia-despite-invasion

Hmm - there was before a similar 'pact' between super powers of the day. And it all ended in tears!

It seems there's a "disconnect" between the link above and the Russia/China pact I refer to. Here is a more relevant link.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/dail...na-unveil-a-pact-against-america-and-the-west

 

[fresh_42]

In case you want to know what Гаага means. It is Russian for The Hague!

 

[neilparker62]

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/07/europe/ukraine-hotline-russian-soldiers-intl-cmd/index.html

What a tragedy!

 

[fresh_42]

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/07/europe/ukraine-hotline-russian-soldiers-intl-cmd/index.html

What a tragedy!

The longer this lasts, and the more Putin becomes an absolute dictator, the more I am convinced that the Ukrainians not only fight for themselves, they fight for Russians, too!

 

[wrobel]

they fight for Russians, too!

exactly!

 

[neilparker62]

Ukraine is the democracy which Russia should have become! Perhaps that is what Mr Putin and pals are most worried about and determined to stamp out at all costs.

 

[fresh_42]

Russian families turn to Ukrainian hotline in desperate search for lost soldiers​

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/07/europe/ukraine-hotline-russian-soldiers-intl-cmd/index.html

 

[StevieTNZ]

The following Bill has been introduced into NZ's Parliament: https://www.legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2022/0111/latest/whole.html

It is due to go through all stages today.

 

[Keith_McClary]

We are for Taiwan's right to secede, but against Donbas' right to secede.

 

[hutchphd]

Who is"we"? And by what mechanism do you speak for the people of Donbas?

 

[Keith_McClary]

Who is"we"? And by what mechanism do you speak for the people of Donbas?

"We" meaning the West. Ukraine is opposed to secession. They don't care what the people think, same as in Crimea.

 

[Office_Shredder]

We are for Taiwan's right to secede, but against Donbas' right to secede.

What even is your definition of secede here.

 

[Keith_McClary]

What even is your definition of secede here.

For Taiwan, to end the One China.
The "One-China policy" is the position held by the People's Republic of China (PRC), shared by the same claim pertaining to the Constitution of the Republic of China (ROC), that there is only one sovereign state under the name China and Taiwan is a part of China, as opposed to the idea that there are two separate sovereign states, the People's Republic of China (PRC) and the Republic of China (ROC).[1][2] The "1992 Consensus", in which semiofficial representatives from the PRC and ROC "agreed" that there is only one sovereign state encompassing both mainland China and Taiwan, but disagreed about which of the two governments is the legitimate government of this state, is a product of the One-China principle.

The usual definition for Donbas. The will of the people doesn't seem to matter much in international law - for example, the Catalonians with long prison terms for advocating a referendum.