Could this nondimensionalized ODE reveal hysteresis through its steady states?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a nondimensionalized ordinary differential equation (ODE) and its potential to exhibit hysteresis through its steady states. Participants explore the conditions under which three nonzero steady states may exist in the r,q parameter space, particularly focusing on the domain defined by rq > 4. The conversation includes attempts to analyze the model's behavior and steady states, as well as the implications of small ε values.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that there are three possible nonzero steady states if r and q lie in the domain where rq > 4, but the method to demonstrate this is unclear.
  • One participant questions the impact of ε being small on the model's behavior and the existence of hysteresis.
  • Another participant suggests making substitutions for r and u to analyze the model further, specifically proposing r = R/√ε and u = U√ε.
  • There is a request for clarification on the notation used in the equations, particularly regarding constants and functions of time and state.
  • Participants express difficulty in solving for the nonzero steady states and seek guidance on parameterizing r and q.
  • One participant mentions having solved most aspects of the problem but still seeks assistance specifically regarding hysteresis.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the methods to demonstrate the existence of steady states or hysteresis. Multiple competing views and approaches are presented, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the best path forward.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the parameters and the definitions of variables. The dependence on the small ε value and its implications for the model's behavior are not fully explored. Additionally, the mathematical steps required to demonstrate the existence of steady states and hysteresis are not clearly outlined.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for researchers or students interested in dynamical systems, nonlinear differential equations, and the study of hysteresis in mathematical models.

Dustinsfl
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I need to demonstrate that there are 3 possible nonzero steady states if r and q lie in a domain in r,q space given approximately by rq>4. Could this model exhibit hysteresis?
The below ODE is nondimensionalized.
$0<\varepsilon\ll 1$

$\displaystyle
\frac{du}{d\tau} = ru\left(1 - \frac{u}{q}\right) - \left(1 - \exp\left[-\frac{u^2}{\varepsilon}\right]\right)=0
$
From that we get these two equations,
$\displaystyle
h(u) = ru\left(1 - \frac{u}{q}\right), \quad f(u) = 1 - \exp\left[-\frac{u^2}{\varepsilon}\right].
$
The derivatives of $h$ and $f$ are
$\displaystyle
h'(u) = r - \frac{2ru}{q}, \quad f'(u) = \frac{2u}{\varepsilon}\exp\left[-\frac{u^2}{\varepsilon}\right].
$
Solving for $\displaystyle r = \frac{2uq}{\varepsilon(q - 2u)}\exp\left[-\frac{u^2}{\varepsilon}\right]$.

I tried substitution r into the original equation and solving for q but that is ridiculous. What can I do here?
 
Last edited:
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dwsmith said:
I need to demonstrate that there are 3 possible nonzero steady states if r and q lie in a domain in r,q space given approximately by rq>4. Could this model exhibit hysteresis?
The below ODE is nondimensionalized.
$0<\varepsilon\ll 1$

$\displaystyle
\frac{du}{d\tau} = ru\left(1 - \frac{u}{q}\right) - \left(1 - \exp\left[-\frac{u^2}{\varepsilon}\right]\right)=0
$
From that we get these two equations,
$\displaystyle
h(u) = ru\left(1 - \frac{u}{q}\right), \quad f(u) = 1 - \exp\left[-\frac{u^2}{\varepsilon}\right].
$
The derivatives of $h$ and $f$ are
$\displaystyle
h'(u) = r - \frac{2ru}{q}, \quad f'(u) = \frac{2u}{\varepsilon}\exp\left[-\frac{u^2}{\varepsilon}\right].
$
Solving for $\displaystyle r = \frac{2uq}{\varepsilon(q - 2u)}\exp\left[-\frac{u^2}{\varepsilon}\right]$.

I tried substitution r into the original equation and solving for q but that is ridiculous. What can I do here?
Can anyone offer any guidance? I tried using Mathematica but the solution is unmanageable.

What should I do since it says rq > 4? I don't really understand how that affects. Does epsilon being really small change anything?
 
In order to determine if the model has hysteresis, I have to make the substitution

$r=\frac{R}{\sqrt{\varepsilon}}$ and $u=U\sqrt{\varepsilon}$.

And show that there is a nose at $R = 0.638$.

After I make the substitutions, what do I do to show the nose at $R = 0.638$?
 
dwsmith said:
I need to demonstrate that there are 3 possible nonzero steady states if r and q lie in a domain in r,q space given approximately by rq>4. Could this model exhibit hysteresis?
The below ODE is nondimensionalized.
$0<\varepsilon\ll 1$

$\displaystyle
\frac{du}{d\tau} = ru\left(1 - \frac{u}{q}\right) - \left(1 - \exp\left[-\frac{u^2}{\varepsilon}\right]\right)=0
$
From that we get these two equations,
$\displaystyle
h(u) = ru\left(1 - \frac{u}{q}\right), \quad f(u) = 1 - \exp\left[-\frac{u^2}{\varepsilon}\right].
$
The derivatives of $h$ and $f$ are
$\displaystyle
h'(u) = r - \frac{2ru}{q}, \quad f'(u) = \frac{2u}{\varepsilon}\exp\left[-\frac{u^2}{\varepsilon}\right].
$
Solving for $\displaystyle r = \frac{2uq}{\varepsilon(q - 2u)}\exp\left[-\frac{u^2}{\varepsilon}\right]$.

I tried substitution r into the original equation and solving for q but that is ridiculous. What can I do here?

Can you explain your notation, in particular what are constants and what are functions of time and state?

Also, when you have:

\[ \displaystyle
\frac{du}{d\tau} = ru\left(1 - \frac{u}{q}\right) - \left(1 - \exp\left[-\frac{u^2}{\varepsilon}\right]\right)=0 \]

you do not proceed by looking for solutions of:

\[ \displaystyle
ru\left(1 - \frac{u}{q}\right) = \left(1 - \exp\left[-\frac{u^2}{\varepsilon}\right]\right) \]

CB
 
CaptainBlack said:
Can you explain your notation, in particular what are constants and what are functions of time and state?

Also, when you have:

\[ \displaystyle
\frac{du}{d\tau} = ru\left(1 - \frac{u}{q}\right) - \left(1 - \exp\left[-\frac{u^2}{\varepsilon}\right]\right)=0 \]

you do not proceed by looking for solutions of:

\[ \displaystyle
ru\left(1 - \frac{u}{q}\right) = \left(1 - \exp\left[-\frac{u^2}{\varepsilon}\right]\right) \]

CB

u is a parameter and everything else is a constant.

I know one steady state is u = 0 but the others are rather difficult to solve for which is what I need some aid with.

As well as parameterizing the r and q.
 
Last edited:
dwsmith said:
In order to determine if the model has hysteresis, I have to make the substitution

$r=\frac{R}{\sqrt{\varepsilon}}$ and $u=U\sqrt{\varepsilon}$.

And show that there is a nose at $R = 0.638$.

After I make the substitutions, what do I do to show the nose at $R = 0.638$?
I have everything solved now except the hysteresis. If you decide to respond to this question, ignore everything else.

Thanks.
 
How would I come up with the r-q space for this model?
 
Last edited:

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