Coulomb gauge implies instantaneous radial electric field?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Bob44
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Electromagetism
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of the Coulomb gauge in electromagnetic theory, particularly focusing on whether the expression for the radial electric field derived from the scalar and vector potentials violates causality due to its instantaneous nature. Participants explore the theoretical foundations, mathematical formulations, and physical interpretations related to electric fields in the context of gauge choices and retarded potentials.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants describe the scalar potential in Coulomb gauge and its instantaneous solution as given by Poisson's equation.
  • Others argue that the longitudinal electric field, while instantaneous, does not violate causality when considered as part of the total electric field, which includes both longitudinal and transverse components.
  • A later reply questions how an instantaneous longitudinal field can be canceled by a retarded transverse field, given the finite time it takes for the transverse field to propagate.
  • Some participants reference Jackson's 2002 paper to support the claim that non-retarded quantities in the electric field can cancel out instantaneous contributions from the longitudinal field.
  • There is mention of the existence of causality-reversed solutions in Maxwell's equations, which could lead to non-physical scenarios if not properly accounted for.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing views on whether the instantaneous nature of the longitudinal electric field poses a causality issue and how it interacts with the retarded transverse field.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the implications of instantaneous terms in potentials versus fields, and the discussion highlights the dependence on definitions and interpretations of gauge choices in electromagnetic theory.

Bob44
Messages
15
Reaction score
1
Scalar and vector potentials in Coulomb gauge

Assume Coulomb gauge so that
$$\nabla \cdot \mathbf{A}=0.\tag{1}$$
The scalar potential ##\phi## is described by Poisson's equation
$$\nabla^2 \phi = -\frac{\rho}{\varepsilon_0}\tag{2}$$
which has the instantaneous general solution given by
$$\phi(\mathbf{r},t)=\frac{1}{4\pi\varepsilon_0}\int \frac{\rho(\mathbf{r}',t)}{|\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{r}'|}d^3r'.\tag{3}$$
In Coulomb gauge the vector potential ##\mathbf{A}## is given by
$$\nabla^2\mathbf{A}-\frac{1}{c^2}\frac{\partial^2\mathbf{A}}{\partial t^2}=-\mu_0\mathbf{J}+\frac{1}{c^2}\nabla\frac{\partial\phi}{\partial t}.\tag{4}$$
We decompose the vector potential ##\mathbf{A}## into its transverse and longitudinal components
$$\mathbf{A}=\mathbf{A}_\perp+\mathbf{A}_\parallel.\tag{5}$$
We define the transverse current density ##\mathbf{J}_\perp## by subtracting off the longitudinal component ##\nabla \partial \phi/\partial t## from the total current density ##\mathbf{J}## to obtain
$$\mathbf{J}_\perp=\mathbf{J}-\varepsilon_0 \nabla \frac{\partial \phi}{\partial t}.\tag{6}$$
Therefore the transverse component of the vector potential ##\mathbf{A}_\perp## obeys the wave equation
$$\nabla^2\mathbf{A}_\perp-\frac{1}{c^2}\frac{\partial^2\mathbf{A}_\perp}{\partial t^2}=-\mu_0\mathbf{J}_\perp\tag{7}$$
which has the retarded general solution
$$\mathbf{A}_\perp=\frac{\mu_0}{4\pi}\int \frac{\mathbf{J}_\perp(\mathbf{r}',t_r)}{|\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{r}'|}d^3r'\tag{8}$$
where
$$t_r=t-\frac{\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{r}'}{c}.\tag{9}$$
The longitudinal component of the vector potential ##\mathbf{A}_\parallel## obeys the Poisson equation
$$\nabla^2 \mathbf{A}_\parallel=-\frac{1}{c^2} \nabla \frac{\partial \phi}{\partial t}\tag{10}$$
which has the instantaneous general solution
$$\mathbf{A}_\parallel=\frac{1}{4\pi c^2}\int \frac{\nabla'(\partial\phi/\partial t)}{|\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{r}'|}d^3r'.\tag{11}$$
Point charge at the origin connected to a wire

Let us consider a time-dependent point charge ##q(t)## located at the origin, which is connected to a wire that carries current to or from the charge.

At any point from the origin the radial electric field ##\mathbf{E}_\parallel## is given by
$$\mathbf{E}_\parallel=-\nabla \phi - \frac{\partial \mathbf{A}_\parallel}{\partial t}\tag{12}.$$
We have
$$
\begin{eqnarray}
\phi(\mathbf{r},t)&=&\frac{1}{4\pi\varepsilon_0}\frac{q(t)}{r},\tag{13}\\
-\nabla \phi&=&\frac{1}{4\pi\varepsilon_0}\frac{q(t)}{r^2}\hat{\mathbf{r}},\tag{14}\\
\frac{\partial\phi}{\partial t}(\mathbf{r}',t)&=&\frac{1}{4\pi\varepsilon_0}\frac{\dot{q}(t)}{r'},\tag{15}\\
\nabla'\frac{\partial \phi}{\partial t}(\mathbf{r}',t)&=&-\frac{1}{4\pi\varepsilon_0}\frac{\dot{q}(t)}{r'^2}\hat{\mathbf{r}}'.\tag{16}
\end{eqnarray}
$$
Substituting eqn.##(16)## into eqn.##(11)## and using the standard Poisson integral of a radial gradient we obtain
$$
\begin{eqnarray}
\mathbf{A}_\parallel(\mathbf{r},t)&=&\frac{1}{4\pi\varepsilon_0}\frac{\dot{q}(t)}{c^2 r}\hat{\mathbf{r}},\tag{17}\\
-\frac{\partial \mathbf{A}_\parallel}{\partial t}&=&-\frac{1}{4\pi\varepsilon_0}\frac{\ddot{q}(t)}{c^2 r}\hat{\mathbf{r}}.\tag{18}
\end{eqnarray}
$$
Therefore by substituting eqn.##(14)## and eqn.##(18)## into eqn.##(12)## we find that the radial electric field ##\mathbf{E}_\parallel## is given by
$$\mathbf{E}_\parallel=\frac{1}{4\pi\varepsilon_0}\left(\frac{q(t)}{r^2}-\frac{\ddot{q}(t)}{c^2r}\right)\hat{\mathbf{r}}.\tag{19}$$
Does eqn.##(19)## violate causality since it is an instantaneous expression?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Longitudinal electric field isn't an observable, E is. (Save some electrostatic near field stuff when E is approx ##E_{\parallel}## and complete far field where E is approx ##E_{\perp}##). The question seems a bit ill framed in it's foundations, can a math equation violate causality? Sure. Can physics? No, not when you account for Maxwell + charge conservation + retarded boundary conditions.

Here, when you look at the total field $$E = E_{\perp} + E_{\parallel}$$ any instantaneous bit from the longitudinal electric field is cancelled exactly by the transverse field, so there is nothing causality violating in the observable E.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Dale and TSny
Bob44 said:
Does eqn.(19) violate causality since it is an instantaneous expression?
As was pointed out by @QuarkyMeson, no, because it is only part of the field.

However, Maxwell’s equations admit causality-reversed solutions. So you can get non-physical solutions. These can be found using advanced potentials.

However, these solutions have a light-speed delay, just to the past instead of the future. So if you find an “instantaneous” transfer of information in the field then you made a mistake.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: QuarkyMeson and TSny
QuarkyMeson said:
Here, when you look at the total field $$E = E_{\perp} + E_{\parallel}$$ any instantaneous bit from the longitudinal electric field is cancelled exactly by the transverse field, so there is nothing causality violating in the observable E.
But how could the retarded transverse field cancel the instantaneous longitudinal field as it takes a finite time for the transverse field to get to the observation point whereas the longitudinal field is there already?
 
Last edited:
Bob44 said:
But how could the retarded transverse field cancel the instantaneous longitudinal field as it takes a finite time for the transverse field to get to the observation point whereas the longitudinal field is there already?
This is shown in Jackson's 2002 paper "From Lorenz to Coulomb and other explicit gauge transformations" (Am J Phys, 35:832-837). Basically, he shows that in the Coulomb gauge $$-\frac{\partial \mathbf A_C}{\partial t} = \frac{1}{4\pi\epsilon_0}\int d^3 x' \left( \frac{[\rho]}{R^2}\mathbf{\hat R} + \frac{[\partial \rho/\partial t']}{Rc}\mathbf{\hat R} - \frac{[\partial \mathbf J/\partial t']}{Rc^2} - \frac{\rho}{R^2} \mathbf{\hat R}\right)$$where the square brackets indicate retarded quantities. The final term is a non-retarded quantity that exactly cancels out the non-retarded quantity from ##-\nabla \Phi_c## leaving only retarded quantities in the total E field.

Of course, as I mentioned before, for every causal retarded solution there is a non-causal advanced solution. But either way there are no instantaneous terms in the fields, just in the potentials.
 
  • Like
  • Informative
Likes   Reactions: QuarkyMeson, Bob44, Ibix and 2 others
Dale said:
This is shown in Jackson's 2002 paper "From Lorenz to Coulomb and other explicit gauge transformations" (Am J Phys, 35:832-837).
Thanks for the reference!

https://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0204034
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Dale

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
666
  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
796
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
719
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
746
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
620
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K