Counting to p-adic Calculus: All Number Systems That We Have

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the historical development and mathematical significance of various number systems, including p-adic numbers. Participants explore the implications of these systems in different mathematical contexts, including their roles in number theory and metric completions.

Discussion Character

  • Historical
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the history of numbers could be extensive, mentioning key historical figures and the introduction of zero as a significant milestone in mathematics.
  • Another participant raises a concern about the representation of numbers in proving the non-countability of the reals, proposing an alternative iteration method to avoid complications.
  • A later post confirms that p-adic numbers are a metric completion of the rationals, while another participant questions whether they can also be considered a completion of the reals.
  • Participants discuss the nature of p-adic analysis and its implications in homological algebra, noting that p-adics can be introduced via projective limits.
  • There is uncertainty regarding the relationship between p-adics and the reals, with one participant emphasizing that p-adics do not include the reals in their structure.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between p-adic numbers and the reals, with some asserting that p-adics are a completion of the rationals while others challenge this assertion. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these relationships.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions and assumptions surrounding the completion of number systems, particularly concerning the inclusion of the reals in p-adic analysis.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying the history of mathematics, number theory, and advanced mathematical concepts such as metric spaces and homological algebra.

fresh_42
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An entire book could easily be written about the history of numbers from ancient Babylon and India, over Abu Dscha’far Muhammad ibn Musa al-Chwarizmi (##\sim ## 780 – 845), Gerbert of Aurillac aka pope Silvester II. (##\sim ## 950 – 1003), Leonardo da Pisa Fibonacci (##\sim## 1170 – 1240), Johann Carl Friedrich Gauß (1777 – 1855), Sir William Rowan Hamilton (1805 – 1865), to Kurt Hensel (1861 – 1941). This would lead too far. Instead, I want to consider the numbers by their mathematical meaning. Nevertheless, I will try to describe the mathematics behind our number systems as simple as possible.
I like to consider the finding of zero as the beginning of mathematics: Someone decided to count what wasn’t there! Just brilliant! However, the truth is as often less glamorous. Babylonian accountants needed a placeholder for an empty space for the number system they used in their books. The digits zero to nine have been first introduced in India. In Sanskrit, zero stands for emptiness...

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This is great, but your perturbation is digits to prove non countability of ##\mathbb{R}## walks right into the fact that a number has more than one representation. I think if you iterate by 3 instead of 1 you avoid this, but maybe that's too finicky and not worth it for an overview.

Edit: thinking a little more, as long as you insist on writing in your initial list the representation that has the largest digit as early as possible you avoid the issue?
 
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Office_Shredder said:
This is great, but your perturbation is digits to prove non countability of ##\mathbb{R}## walks right into the fact that a number has more than one representation. I think if you iterate by 3 instead of 1 you avoid this, but maybe that's too finicky and not worth it for an overview.

Edit: thinking a little more, as long as you insist on writing in your initial list the representation that has the largest digit as early as possible you avoid the issue?
Corrected from the idea in my mind to the proof in my book to the expense of more technical babble which I tried to avoid.
 
IIRC, p-adics are also a metric completion of the (Edit): Rationals?
 
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WWGD said:
IIRC, p-adics are also a metric completion of the Reals?
Yes, that's right.
 
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fresh_42 said:
Yes, that's right.
Thanks. Does that play a role in your presentation here? Please don't mind my unhealthy preocupation with Mathematical minutiae.
 
WWGD said:
Thanks. Does that play a role in your presentation here? Please don't mind my unhealthy preocupation with Mathematical minutiae.
They are a metric completion. I think we cannot say "of the reals" since they are not included in ##\mathbb{Q}_p.## ##p##-adic analysis is strange. The topological idea behind completion is easy: we have an evaluation, that defines a metric, so we have Cauchy-sequences and ##\mathbb{Q}_p## just gathers all limits per definition.

They are interesting for homological algebra since they can be introduced via projective limits.
 
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fresh_42 said:
They are interesting for homological algebra since they can be introduced via projective limits.
Not sure about this, but they are certainly important in number theory.
 

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