COVID Booster Shots - Thoughts/News?

[nsaspook]

A friend of mine is immunocompromised, but there are considerations that these people need to take. I was talking to a good friend about the booster, and they responded

"Yep I saw that, I'll ask my specialist about it this week but I'm sure she'll think it's a good idea. The only thing is that anything that can elicit an immune response can make my flare even worse so we may want to be thoughtful about how we time it, especially if we're switching my medication."

So it's not like anyone that is immunocompromised should just go out and get the booster. PLEASE TALK TO YOUR DOCTOR IF YOU HAVE HEALTH ISSUES!

Sure, keep them in the loop but it is a patient-instigated process without a lot of hoops to get a third dose for those that qualify. A lot of us had this discussion about a possible 'booster' with a medical professional when we received our first shots and have been waiting (some have gamed the system on their own for a 3rd) for that extra shot during this Delta wave of infection.

IMO If you're immunocompromised, start the process now before the September booster rush clogs the system.

https://www.kptv.com/news/area-pharmacies-prepare-for-third-covid-19-vaccine-dose/article_1594948c-0083-11ec-bdde-a32f44164a4c.html

"We're anticipating it to be a very busy season for us,” Daniel Lee, pharmacy manager at Fairley's Pharmacy in Northeast Portland, said. “Of course, that's during a flu season as well, so we do tons of flu vaccinations."

Lee said people are still trickling in for their second doses, but requests for first doses of vaccine have pretty much dried up. Lee does expect a rush once vaccine boosters become available.

"We're going to set up an online portal where people can sign up for appointments,” Lee said. “It's going to be 15-minute slots so we can streamline for people to get vaccines."

 

[Tom.G]

While the CDC did previously recommend a 3rd shot for immunocompromised people, the US government announced plans today to make booster doses available to all adults in the US on Sep 20: https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2021...d-medical-experts-covid-19-booster-shots.html

It looks like a booster is in the cards.

That same article states:

We are prepared to offer booster shots for all Americans beginning the week of September 20 and starting 8 months[/size][/size] after an individual’s second dose.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[kyphysics]

re: 8 months

Some of the data seem to suggest waning vaccine efficacy 4-6 months after Dose #2 (a Pfizer study showed a drop down to ~84%, per my original post/article). Any idea if people can get a booster before 8 months (heck, even as early as 4 months)?

 

[kyphysics]

As most people probably know, a Pfizer booster shot has already been authorized (late-September 2021) for "select population groups": https://www.fda.gov/news-events/pre...biontech-covid-19-vaccine-certain-populations

Some important upcoming FDA meeting dates in October (2021) will involve boosters for Moderna and J&J, along with "mixing and matching vaccines:

The Food and Drug Administration’s independent vaccine advisory committee will hold three meetings in October to discuss Covid-19 booster shots, mix-and-match boosters and vaccines for children aged 5 to 11, the agency announced Friday.

The first two meetings, on Oct. 14 and 15, will cover booster doses of the Moderna vaccine and the Johnson & Johnson vaccine — both of which are authorized for use in adults. During the second meeting, the committee also will discuss data from the National Institutes of Health and the safety and efficacy of getting initial doses of one Covid vaccine and, later, a booster dose of another manufacturer's shot.

 

[kyphysics]

Here's a question I have (not sure if it belongs more in the Biological/Medical section - either as a new thread or into existing one - or it's fine to ask it here...since I previously created this thread specifically on boosters, I figured I start with posting it here and allow for moderator or self-transport of it elsewhere if needed):

Is my understanding correct that boosters simply give our bodies "updated"/new active antibodies, which wane over several months? And, is it the case that the original full vaccine dosage(s) (i.e., pre-booster) already give us long-lasting (meaning years - not months) memory T and B cells, which help protect us still/continually?

Not sure if my conception/understanding of things is correct or not, but this is what I gather from readings over the past year or so. So, is it basically that the vaccines offer good long-term protection for everyone, but just that people getting boosters get a little "extra" protection (that will fade shortly still...which, if true, begs the question for me of whether constant boosters would be needed/recommended every few months for that extra protection of certain populations)?

 

[mcastillo356]

Hi, kyphysics!
In Spain only few ones receive it: elderly and immunosupressed. On the other hand, there seem to be lots of doses that might expire soon. Conclusion: confusion. Anyhow, my source is TV; last time I bought newspaper (despite I don't rely on it) it didn't mention anything: it is focused on politics, corruption...
Regards
PS: Israel seems to me is being serious, concerned. It seems to me is acting right.

 

[Tom.G]

From somewhat meager information I have run across here in the US:
The immune response from Pfizer vaccine starts tapering off around month 5 after the second dose, I seem to recall numbers +-30% reduction but don't recall the precise time frame.

The Moderna vaccine is still running around 90+% at 6 months.

The above COULD be related to the Pfizer having only 30% of the actual vaccine per shot as the Moderna; but the two are also slightly different.

I have no information about the Johnson&Johnson.

Hopefully others here have more/better information.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[kyphysics]

From somewhat meager information I have run across here in the US:
The immune response from Pfizer vaccine starts tapering off around month 5 after the second dose, I seem to recall numbers +-30% reduction but don't recall the precise time frame.

Okay, yeah, that's in regards to reduced efficacy of preventing infections in the Pfizer vaccine. Here is a recent (Oct. 4, 2021) piece talking about Pfizer's vaccine protection against infection and hospitalization: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/04/pfi...tion-tumbles-to-47percent-study-confirms.html

The effectiveness of Pfizer and BioNTech’s Covid-19 vaccine against infection tumbles over several months, falling from a peak of 88% a month after receiving the two-shot series to 47% six months later, according to an observational study published Monday in the peer-reviewed journal The Lancet.

While the two-dose mRNA vaccine’s efficacy against infection wanes, its protection against Covid-related hospitalizations persists, remaining 90% effective for all Coronavirus variants of concern — including delta — for at least six months, according to the study, which was funded by Pfizer.

I think the booster argument is usually based on reduced infection efficacy from the way I've interpreted various pieces. Whereas, efficacy of preventing severe complications is still pretty high.

The vaccines (whether using mRNA like Pfizer and Moderna or an adenovirus approach like JNJ and AstraZeneca) help our bodies produce active neutralizing antibodies, which actively go around intercepting the COVID virus strains before they attack our cells. These wane/decay over time - usually over months.

However, what does not wane (and even increases) over time are memory B and T cells from the vaccines. B cells help our body create new neutralizing antibodies if we ever encounter the virus again in the future. And T cells help attack the virus after it has begun attacking our cells.

So, yes, if we don't constantly (every 5 months or so) get new booster shots to up our active neutralizing antibodies, we will lose them gradually after every shot. BUT, we have long-lasting (years) memory B and memory T cells in us (which can grow in number as they reproduce) that can help our bodies fight COVID after it has attacked us and that seems to be what's helping prevent severe complications (even if we get infected) if my understanding is correct. So, the boosters confer a temporary extra benefit (proactive antibodies attacking the virus and stopping it from getting inside our cells). But the original full vaccine doses still give us very good long-term protection after the virus has attacked us (i.e., entered into our cells).

I think this is correct, but just wanting to confirm, as I've pieced this together across lots of reading (from Nature - top academic-level journal - to more popular level news sources like a CNBC).

 

[kyphysics]

I just got back from CVS in taking my father to get a COVID booster. It's "old news" by now, but boosters for Moderna and J&J have been approved for select groups:

the elderly (65 and older)
those with medical conditions making them vulnerable, and/or
those working in "sensitive" positions (like a medical facility).

Interestingly, when speaking with the pharmacist who administered my dad's shot, he said he works the hospital normally and the past 2-3 weeks, he said there've been a lot of people who're fully vaccinated with one of the major vaccines and gotten breakthrough infections. In coming into the hospital, they were tested for antibodies and they found that many of these people had zero active antibodies left.

He said he'd highly recommend getting a booster if you're in one of those vulnerable/sensitive categories above. The boosters, nowadays, are 50% less than the original vaccine dosages, he said, due to the Pfizer boosters giving people problems (bad reactions) when at 100% of the original dosages. So for all boosters going forward, they've now been giving people only 50% dosages from the norm (an exception would be for the immunocompromised, who'd get a higher dosage, b/c they need more to produce a response).

 

[kyphysics]

^^^One negative is that LOTS of people were unmasked in the Target CVS store I took my father to for the booster (although, most - 50%+ - were masked).

 

[phinds]

Yeah, here in Central NY both Walgreens and CVS are providing boosters pretty much at the drop of a hat. Wife and I got ours yesterday. Tiny sore arm for me, no reaction for her. We both had Moderna first 2 and the Pfizer booster.

 

[kyphysics]

When the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention added mood disorders to the list of conditions that put people at high risk for severe Covid-19 recently, clinicians were not surprised. The mind-body connection, they say, is long-settled research.

But the scientific seal of approval is still critical: It makes millions of people eligible for booster shots based on their mental health diagnosis alone and gives vulnerable groups more reason to protect themselves.

A new qualifying condition has been added to those eligible for a booster now - mood disorders:
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/vaccine-eligibility-mood-disorders-underscores-133043228.html

 

[phinds]

A new qualifying condition has been added to those eligible for a booster now - mood disorders:

Well, that makes me quadruple-eligible --- old, fat, COPD, and grumpy.

 

[Ygggdrasil]

The boosters, nowadays, are 50% less than the original vaccine dosages, he said, due to the Pfizer boosters giving people problems (bad reactions) when at 100% of the original dosages. So for all boosters going forward, they've now been giving people only 50% dosages from the norm (an exception would be for the immunocompromised, who'd get a higher dosage, b/c they need more to produce a response).

Only the Moderna booster half of the original dose. All other approved boosters (Pfizer or J&J) are the same dose as the original dose(s).
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/booster-shot.html

 

[mcastillo356]

https://english.elpais.com/
Janssen vaccine recipients will need booster shot.
It's my case.
Love,
Marcos

 

[kyphysics]

Only the Moderna booster half of the original dose. All other approved boosters (Pfizer or J&J) are the same dose as the original dose(s).
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/booster-shot.html

Interesting. Thanks for the post, Y.

I may have misheard the pharmacist and/or he may have misstated (or said in an unclear way) the facts.

 

[kyphysics]

So, here's a question:

Obesity is listed as a qualifying medical condition for boosters currently. Does one have to be officially declared obese by a doctor (how many doctors really tell patients they are obese directly?) or can one go by the medical BMI measurement?

My BMI has straddled back and forth between obese and non-obese (i.e., 30 and over or under 30) for the past few years. Depending on the day, I could be considered just overweight or flat out obese. This is mostly thanks to a shoulder and back injury from a few years ago preventing my regular exercise (and my own laziness), but that's another story. My doctor hasn't really diagnosed me as obese officially in records and I'm at a BMI of 29 today (30 a couple of weeks ago). I doubt my pharmacist would take my weight in the store.

 

[kyphysics]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/biden-administration-plans-offer-second-142922285.html

WASHINGTON — The Biden administration is planning to give Americans age 50 or older the option of a second booster of the Pfizer or Moderna Coronavirus vaccine without recommending outright that they get one, according to several people familiar with the plan.

Major uncertainties have complicated the decision, including how long the protection from a second booster would last, how to explain the plan to the public and even whether the overall goal is to shield Americans from severe disease or from less serious infections as well, since they could lead to long COVID.

 

[mcastillo356]

Hi, @kyphysics!

This link is Spain in EL PAÍS English Edition; there are some news on topic.

https://english.elpais.com/spain/

Personally, I'm also concerned about what I call the implosion of the social. But that's another matter

 

[kyphysics]

[Mentors’ note: it is best to follow the link to the yahoo news article to get the full context]

Covid deaths no longer overwhelmingly among unvaccinated as toll on elderly grows​

https://www.yahoo.com/news/covid-deaths-no-longer-overwhelmingly-132139645.html

WASHINGTON — Unvaccinated people accounted for the overwhelming majority of deaths in the United States throughout much of the Coronavirus pandemic. But that has changed in recent months, according to a Washington Post analysis of state and federal data.

The pandemic's toll is no longer falling almost exclusively on those who chose not to get shots, with vaccine protection waning over time and the elderly and immunocompromised - who are at greatest risk of succumbing to covid-19, even if vaccinated - having a harder time dodging increasingly contagious strains. . .

The bulk of vaccinated deaths are among people who did not get a booster shot, according to state data provided to The Post. In two of the states, California and Mississippi, three-quarters of the vaccinated senior citizens who died in January and February did not have booster doses. Regulators in recent weeks have authorized second booster doses for people over the age of 50, but administration of first booster doses has stagnated.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Covid deaths no longer overwhelmingly among unvaccinated as toll on elderly grows

According to the article, 42% of deaths are among vaccinated people. That means 58% among the non-vaccinated. But 77% of the population have received at least one dose (most of whom received additional doses if necessary). So vaccination reduces your probability of death by a factor of 4.6.

 

[Nugatory]

This thread had been closed for a major train wreck. The debris has been removed and the thread is open again.

 

[Vanadium 50]

This thread should probably remain closed. That's better than letting the misinformation stand (and there have been multiple cases of it) but editing out the threads that identify it as such.