CP violation, Tunnelling effect, and Cherenkov radiation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the concepts of CP violation, time reversal invariance, and their relationship to phenomena such as the tunneling effect and Cherenkov radiation. Participants explore whether these phenomena violate time reversal invariance, particularly in the context of the Weak Force and beta decay. The inquiry is rooted in advanced physics theories and seeks to understand the implications of time reversal invariance in various physical processes.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the increase of entropy over time is a familiar example of breaking time reversal invariance.
  • One participant questions whether the tunneling effect and Cherenkov radiation also violate time reversal invariance.
  • Another participant expresses skepticism about the relationship between the tunneling effect, Cherenkov radiation, and time reversal invariance.
  • There are requests for definitions and references regarding the tunneling effect and Cherenkov radiation, particularly in relation to time reversal invariance.
  • One participant emphasizes that the inquiry is about reversible processes and the principle of invariance at time reversal, specifically in the context of the Weak Force and beta decay.
  • Concerns are raised about the clarity and definition of terms used in the discussion, with some participants feeling that poorly defined questions hinder productive dialogue.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether the tunneling effect and Cherenkov radiation violate time reversal invariance. Multiple competing views and uncertainties remain regarding the definitions and implications of these phenomena.

Contextual Notes

Participants express the need for clearer definitions and references to support their claims. The discussion includes multiple sub-questions related to the broader inquiry, which some participants feel complicates the conversation.

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TL;DR
conjectures between CP violation, Tunnelling effect, and Cherenkov radiation
Which physics concepts and phenomena other than "CP violation" have to deal with the breaking (not validity) of "Invariance of Time Reversal", like for the Weak Force (e.g. for beta-decay)?

The underlying mathematical and physical theory to this inquiry is based on advanced physics textbooks as indicated by Prof. Wolfgang Pfeiler (Faculty of Physics at University of Wien) in his textbook "Experimentalphysik - Band IV: Optik, Stahlung" (De Gruyter), in chapter "Anhang 4: Stokssche Überlegung zum Phasensprung um $\pi$ bei Reflexion am dichteren Medium", p. 151, footnote 86: https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/9783110445701/html .
 
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Increase of entropy with time is a familiar idea to show breaking the time reversal invariance. Quantum jump by observation in QM which is not unitary time evolution is another.
 
Last edited:
Thank you. Do the "Tunnelling effect" and the "Cherenkov radiation" also violate the invariance of time-reversal?
 
I do not think so. I have no idea how they have relation with time reversal issue.
 
Like the "CP violation do the "Tunnelling effect" and the "Cherenkov radiation" also violate the invariance of time-reversal?
 
Can you please provide references for your definitions of the "tunneling effect" and "Cerenkov Radiation" and why these violate time reversal invariance ? What prompts the question?
 
hutchphd said:
Can you please provide references for your definitions of the "tunneling effect" and "Cerenkov Radiation" and why these violate time reversal invariance ? What prompts the question?
"Tunneling effect" and "Cerenkov Radiation" are defined by physics. If those concepts violate time reversal invariance at all is precisely the quest of this post.
 
E Rinella said:
"Tunneling effect" and "Cerenkov Radiation" are defined by physics.
So, in addition to spamming the forum, you refuse to define your terms. This is not a wise strategy.
 
  • #10
So. why do you think that, while everybody else gets one thread per subject you should get two? Why don't the same rules apply to you?

@hutchphd asked you to define your terms in your other thread. You refused. Your choice, but I don't see how we can have a sensible conversation if you don't.
 
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  • #11
Thread closed for Moderation...
 
  • #12
Thread is reopened provisionally after merging the OP's two similar threads.

@E Rinella -- Please supply the better references that have been requested. Thanks.
 
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  • #13
Please find attached a photo I just have taken from the text I had referenced to in the initial post. This quest cannot refer to one single specific journal article, simply because there is none. If somebody in this forum is aware of a specific paper that treats this quest, I would be happy to read it if it can be indicated to me, please.

The inquiry is about "reversible processes" which in turn is based on the principle of "invariance at time reversal". But interestingly enough, as Prof. W. Pfeiler points out in his text, this principle seems to be violated (broken) for processes of the "Weak Force" (in the domain of subatomic, nuclear physics) like e.g. for the Beta decay.

So those questions arise:
1. Why does this violation occure, and
2. for which processes in the domain of the Weak Force is this violation also the case (beside for the Beta decay)?
3. What is the current status of research regarding "violation of the invariance at time reversal"?

Zeitumkehr-Invarianz.jpg
 
  • #14
You have at least five different questions there, and still refuse to define your terms. "Whatever they use on Wikipedia" is not a definition. Ill-defined questions are impossible to answer well.

It is a sad fact of PF that it takes less effort to ask a poor question than it does to answer it. And it is a sadder fact that some people realize this and use it to play games with the membership. This does not go over well. Your history here probably doesn't help - the rules do apply to you.

I suggest you pick one question, be prepared to define your terms, and look it up on Google and Wikipedia. If you are still confused, then you can tell us exactly where and how.
 
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  • #15
Thank you for your adive. As we agreed with berkeman, the mensioned sub-questions shall be merged within one thread. The sub-questions are ment to support the core quest.

Please find here a current draft for the definitions: https://eugenio-invariance_timereversal.curve.space/invariance-time-reversal
 
  • #16
You are free to say "You must answer all five (or more) of my questions, not just one." And we are free to say "Ta ta!"

You are free to say "I a not going to write my definitions here. You must go to my website (and read whatever is there - PF Rulmes or no". And we are free to say "Ta ta!"

Ta ta!
 
  • #17
Vanadium 50 said:
You are free to say "You must answer all five (or more) of my questions, not just one." And we are free to say "Ta ta!"

You are free to say "I an not going to write my definitions here. You must go to my website (and read whatever is there - PF Rules or no". And we are free to say "Ta ta!"

Ta ta!
It’s been my observation that many PF members are psychologically incapable of saying “Ta ta!” to the detriment of the site.
 
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  • #19
The OP is no longer with us, so the thread will remain closed. Thanks to all who tried to help the OP with their questions.