Cross between helicoid, complex plane wave

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical representation of a function that combines characteristics of a helicoid and a complex plane wave. Participants explore how to construct this function in the context of 4-dimensional spacetime, considering various transformations and properties of the wave function.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a function Ψ that is a complex scalar plane wave expressed as Ψ = exp(-i[p⋅x]), where p is the energy-momentum 4-vector and x is the spacetime 4-vector.
  • Another participant suggests that the desired expression should reduce to Ψ = exp(-i[p⋅x]) for points far from the defined line L.
  • A participant simplifies the scenario by aligning the momentum in the +z direction and defining the line L as the z-axis, proposing the use of cylindrical polar coordinates for the mathematical expression.
  • One participant presents potential forms for Ψ, suggesting Ψ(r,θ,z,t) = exp(-i[Et-pz+θ]) for one case and Ψ(r,θ,z,t) = exp(-i[Et-pz+θ/2]) for another.
  • Several participants inquire about the meaning of exponentiating a 4-vector and the role of the imaginary unit 'i' in the expressions, with one participant clarifying that the phase is the Lorentz invariant product of two four-vectors.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various interpretations and approaches to the mathematical expression, with no consensus reached on a definitive formulation or understanding of the concepts involved.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the mathematical properties of the proposed functions, particularly concerning the definitions and implications of exponentiating a 4-vector and the use of the imaginary unit.

Spinnor
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Function kind of cross between a helicoid and a complex plane wave?

I would like to translate a mental picture into a mathematical expression if possible. The picture might be roughly thought of as a cross between a complex plane wave and a helicoid. A construction I think goes as follows, take some complex scalar plane wave in 4 dimensional spacetime Ψ = exp(-i[p⋅x]) where p is the energy-momentum 4-vector for a massless and spinless particle and x is the spacetime 4-vector. Consider an infinite line, L, parallel to the 3-momentum vector together with the time axis. Consider the infinite half-plane, S, defined by those two lines where the "edge" of the half-plane is the line L.

Edit, sorry for my mistake but the half plane I'm thinking of is defined by the line L above and a ray that starts at a point on L and is perpendicular to L in space and is not the time axis.

2nd Edit, seems I cut some of the original, sorry.

Let this half-plane S define a cutting of our function Ψ, called Ψ_cut. Now deform Ψ_cut as follows, shift one surface defined by this cutting forwards in time by 1/2 period and shift the other surface backwards in time by 1/2 period. Now glue the surfaces back together and allow the Ψ to "relax" (minimize curvature in some unique way?).

Was my description clear enough so that Ψ might now be given as a mathematical expression and be defined almost everywhere?

Suggestions on how to come up with the expression would be appreciated.

Now I would like to do the same thing again by shifting the two surfaces defined by this cutting forwards and backwards in time by 1/2 period but then wrap the surfaces around the line L till they meet and glue the surfaces back together and again (if done properly I think we create two "sheets"?). Now allow the Ψ to "relax".

Have I given a construction that could be expressed mathematically?

Thanks for any help.
 
Last edited:
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I guess that the expression I am looking for should reduce to Ψ = exp(-i[p⋅x]) for points very far from line L?
 
So to simplify things let momentum be in the +z direction and let the line L above be the z axis. Let the positive x-axis be the ray perpendicular to line L. Our cut plane now is defined by the positive x-axis and the whole z axis. Now I guess we would want to use cylindrical polar coordinates?
 
Ψ(r,θ,z,t) = exp(-i[Et-pz+θ]) for the first case and Ψ(r,θ,z,t) = exp(-i[Et-pz+θ/2]) for the second case?
 
What does it mean to exponentiate a 4-vector? Are you using quaternions? (Likewise, what is the 'i" in that expression?)
 
zinq said:
What does it mean to exponentiate a 4-vector? Are you using quaternions? (Likewise, what is the 'i" in that expression?)

All very simple. The phase is just the Lorentz invariant product of two four-vectors which is just a number.

p⋅x = Et - p_1 x_1 - p_2 x_2 - p_3 x_3
 

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