Crude Prices Skyrocket: $11 Rise in One Day

[GRB 080319B]

$140 now

 

[wildman]

We are approaching peak oil, but no one knows precisely where the line may lie. For now, we are pumping more crude than ever before, so peak oil is not the issue.

Well, that is the definition of peak oil, no?

 

[edward]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by Ivan Seeking

We are approaching peak oil, but no one knows precisely where the line may lie. For now, we are pumping more crude than ever before, so peak oil is not the issue.

Well, that is the definition of peak oil, no?

NO, pumping more oil than ever is not the definition of peak oil.

 

[WarPhalange]

Peak oil means we've gotten over the hill and it is no longer possible to pump more than ever before.

 

[mheslep]

My girlfriend's dad is a farmer in Pennsylvania and he runs his entire operation, including the heating of his house, the year-round heating of soil, running greenhouses, his two trucks that he ships food in, and his personal vehicles, on waste vegetable oil collected for free from the same restaurants he sells food to. The possibility is definitely there for people to ween themselves off of fossil fuels.

Isn't that illegal (EPA)? At least the driving the trucks down public roads part?

 

[WarPhalange]

I know I've seen TV programs where they do that or show people who have done it. But I guess that doesn't automatically mean it's legal...

 

[GRB 080319B]

$147 now.

 

[B. Elliott]

I know I've seen TV programs where they do that or show people who have done it. But I guess that doesn't automatically mean it's legal...

It's fully legal... just may void the manufacturers warranty on the vehicle since quite a few of them don't feel it's fully compatible with their fuel systems. A friend of mine hauls arcade machines back and fourth between a 150 mile stretch using an F350 that he converted over to use waste vegetable oil. His only cost is what it takes to refine and filter the oil. He puts about 350 miles on his truck on a daily basis and it only costs him ~$100 a month for fuel.

 

[mheslep]

It's fully legal... just may void the manufacturers warranty on the vehicle since quite a few of them don't feel it's fully compatible with their fuel systems. A friend of mine hauls arcade machines back and fourth between a 150 mile stretch using an F350 that he converted over to use waste vegetable oil. His only cost is what it takes to refine and filter the oil. He puts about 350 miles on his truck on a daily basis and it only costs him ~$100 a month for fuel.

Are you sure? A friend of mine at EPA says it is illegal to throw uncertified (i.e. no ASTM approval) fuel in your tank and then hop on the public transportation system:

EPA Registration and Health Effects Testing. All fuels and fuel additives must be registered with the US EPA and be subjected to the health effects regulations contained within 40 CFR Part 79. Companies must register their individual fuel products with the EPA in order to legally market the product to the public. In order to register their fuel, companies must either complete the health effects testing requirements using their specific fuel, or make arrangements with an entity which has completed the testing, in order to use the other entity’s data. The National Biodiesel Board has completed the required health effects testing on behalf of the biodiesel industry, and has established criteria to make the testing data available to companies seeking to register their biodiesel with the EPA. Any fuel that does not meet ASTM D 6751 is not considered biodiesel and therefore does not fall under the NBB testing umbrella. Adoption of D 6751 by the FTA will assist EPA and the biodiesel industry in preventing unregistered fuels from being illegally sold as biodiesel.

http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/definitions/default.shtm

Maybe there is some kind of blanket registration for veg. oil?

 

[NeoDevin]

mheslep, the passage you quoted places no restrictions on using fuels which aren't registered, only on marketing/selling them.

 

[B. Elliott]

Are you sure? A friend of mine at EPA says it is illegal to throw uncertified (i.e. no ASTM approval) fuel in your tank and then hop on the public transportation system:http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/definitions/default.shtm

Maybe there is some kind of blanket registration for veg. oil?

As of now there's no restrictions on if you can legally drive with it on the roads, that's legal and fine. Where the technicalities come in is how much you're producing...

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/briefs/excise-duty/brief4307.htm

http://www.vegoilmotoring.com/eng/legal-stuff

Like I said though, it may completely void the warranty on your vehicle.

 

[mheslep]

True based on that passage, nor does it give an ok to users. I also see:

...Raw vegetable oil cannot meet biodiesel fuel specifications, it is not registered with the EPA, and it is not a legal motor fuel...

http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/biodiesel_basics/
which is still not completely specific about users vs sellers, but it very well may mean nobody can use it.

 

[mheslep]

As of now there's no restrictions on if you can legally drive with it on the roads, that's legal and fine. Where the technicalities come in is how much you're producing...

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/briefs/excise-duty/brief4307.htm

http://www.vegoilmotoring.com/eng/legal-stuff

Like I said though, it may completely void the warranty on your vehicle.

Ah. Both those links address the UK. Looks like the EPA objects in the US to any quantity used or sold for transportation.

 

[B. Elliott]

Ah. Both those links address the UK. Looks like the EPA objects in the US to any quantity used or sold for transportation.

It comes down to a battle of federal vs. state. By state law here, it's legal. By federal, it's a little less clear, but we have yet to have federal involvement with it, so as of yet it hasn't been of consequence...

http://www.frybrid.com/faq.htm#legality

dangit, using wrong links.

 

[mheslep]

So: the EPA clearly believes uncertified vehicles and fuels are illegal, but there's some doubt about whether or not the EPA has anything to say about non-commercial products. To be safe, better not cross any state lines in your vege vehicle.

 

[B. Elliott]

So: the EPA clearly believes uncertified vehicles and fuels are illegal, but there's some doubt about whether or not the EPA has anything to say about non-commercial products. To be safe, better not cross any state lines in your vege vehicle.

It's not mine, it's a buddies. He doesn't do any business out of state due to increased taxes. Since all business is within state, that's why he decided to convert over to veggie oil.

Actually, now that I think about it, we've taken it to Florida a couple of times since we converted it. Oh well!

 

[turbo]

Students at Unity College here in Maine have converted a diesel pickup to run on (processed) used cooking oil and there have been write-ups in local papers about the project. The school has a heavy concentration on conservation, natural resources, forestry, etc.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Students at Unity College here in Maine have converted a diesel pickup to run on (processed) used cooking oil and there have been write-ups in local papers about the project. The school has a heavy concentration on conservation, natural resources, forestry, etc.

So you won't smell like french fries while driving?

 

[mheslep]

Here's what the EPA did to Bonnie and Clyde for driving on vegetable oil:
http://www.vegas4locals.com/images/bc0107_1_.jpg

 

[turbo]

So you won't smell like french fries while driving?

I think that the processing is to remove impurities and contaminants that could plug the injectors - their test vehicles probably smell like fryolater vents at fast-food joints everywhere. I think that they also blend cooking grease with used vegetable oil and are experimenting with soy oil from locally-grown soybeans.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I think that the processing is to remove impurities and contaminants that could plug the injectors - their test vehicles probably smell like fryolater vents at fast-food joints everywhere. I think that they also blend cooking grease with used vegetable oil and are experimenting with soy oil from locally-grown soybeans.

Vegetable oil that has not been transesterified [converted to biodiesel] is not an approved fuel. Nor is it a quality fuel when all is considered. I believe it is illegal [EPA] to run this in any State, but there may be exceptions.

IMO, people who run direct vegetable oil [commonly DVO] are only hurting the biofuels industry. They should just do it right and make biodiesel. DVO is shade-tree mechanic level stuff.

 

[turbo]

Vegetable oil that has not been transesterified [converted to biodiesel] is not an approved fuel. Nor is it a quality fuel when all is considered. I believe it is illegal [EPA] to run this in any State, but there may be exceptions.

IMO, people who run direct vegetable oil [commonly DVO] are only hurting the biofuels industry. They should just do it right and make biodiesel. DVO is shade-tree mechanic level stuff.

These kids have been making biodiesel for years - they're not simply filtering used oil-grease and fueling vehicles with it. They have a pilot plant producing fuel for their vehicles.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

These kids have been making biodiesel for years - they're not simply filtering used oil-grease and fueling vehicles with it. They have a pilot plant producing fuel for their vehicles.

Ah, there is still a large DVO crowd, and many people don't realize that there is a difference.

Btw, I accidentally edited your post instead of quoting, but it has been corrected.

 

[turbo]

I think you might like the Unity College kids, Ivan. Most are avid fishermen and hunters and are fairly conservative on social issues, which fits nicely with the college's concentration on the conservation and husbandry of natural resources. One of my oldest friends is (now retired) chief of the Maine Warden Service. His son graduated from Unity, applied for law enforcement training at the state's academy, and is a game warden. His coastal posting has allowed him to crew on a lobster boat with an older lobsterman in his spare time, and make some extra money while learning the trade. He has his own (smaller) boat for commercial fishing, but gas prices are pinching him so that's on hold for now.