Dark matter and extreme gravitational regimes

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interaction of dark matter with black holes, particularly in extreme gravitational regimes. Participants explore theoretical implications, observational challenges, and the nature of dark matter in relation to black holes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that dark matter could feed black holes, given that it is a form of matter, but its gravitational interactions complicate this process.
  • Others argue that dark matter's collisionless nature means it does not accumulate near black holes like ordinary matter does, requiring specific conditions to be captured.
  • A participant questions the feasibility of observing dark matter's interaction with black holes due to its lack of light emission, suggesting that it would be difficult to see dark matter accruing near a black hole's horizon.
  • Some participants discuss the challenges of determining how much of a black hole's mass originated from dark matter versus ordinary matter, noting the limitations in observational data.
  • There is a debate about the concept of "extreme gravitational regime," with some asserting that it is a misconception and others clarifying it refers to conditions past the event horizon.
  • Participants discuss the potential for studying dark matter interactions in extreme gravitational regimes, particularly through experiments at the LHC, although skepticism about dark matter's existence is also mentioned.
  • Some express the idea that if dark matter interacts differently from visible matter, it could provide insights into its nature.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the interaction of dark matter with black holes, and the discussion remains unresolved on several points, particularly concerning the nature and behavior of dark matter in extreme gravitational environments.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on observational data that may not be available, the unresolved nature of dark matter's properties, and the challenges in tracking the history of black holes to determine their mass composition.

  • #31
ToddM4 said:
ChatGPT
Is not a valid reference here.
 
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  • #32
Several posts about ChatGPT have been deleted. Further posts on ChatGPT will also be removed. It is not an acceptable source here.
 
  • #33
This sound like a jumble of words, but no clear tests.

1. Suppose the LHC made semi-stable black holes. What would you do with them to tell you something about DM?
2. Homework #1 - what is the total volume of black holes (in cubic meters) you expect to make at the LHC. Show your work.
3. Homework #2: What is the total amount of DM contained in the volume of the Earth? In the volume of the previous question?
4, Given the answer to the last two questions does that cause you to rethink the answer to the first?
 
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  • #34
ToddM4 said:
Still, wouldn't it be cool to test dark matter via microscopic black hole evaporation?
There are models where this leaves a cosmological imprint 1 2. I'm sure their authors would agree with you!

But one should not be too excited about the mere existence of such models. A model is simply a formal statement of a possibility, and there are large numbers of possibilities, and they can't all be true. E.g. a review of inflationary models from 2013 contains over 100 distinct theories of cosmic inflation.
 
  • #35
ToddM4 said:
If dark matter really lives up to it's name and truly is some form of matter, then wouldn't it feed black holes given extreme gravitational regime in a black hole?
The bulk of the theoretical and observational work being done on this question involves predictions regarding how the properties of neutron stars (which also involve extreme gravitational effects) would be different (their so called "equation of state") if they had captured significant dark matter, estimates of how much dark matter neutron stars should have absorbed, and efforts to determine if observationally neutron star properties are a better fit to the with dark matter mixed in hypothesis or the without dark matter mixed in hypothesis.

Neutron stars are more attractive than black holes for this kind of research because they are much easier to observe directly.

There are probably a few new papers every month addressing this question. See, e.g., this paper from last week entitled: "Towards Uncovering Dark Matter Effects on Neutron Star Properties: A Machine Learning Approach". There are about 123 papers in all at arXiv on this topic, using one fairly broad set of search terms.

The problem is that the anticipated differences in observable properties between neutron stars with and without dark matter are subtle, the properties of neutron stars without dark matter are hard to model and a subject of dispute, and the observations we have of neutron stars aren't terribly precise making distinguishing between the two hypotheses hard.

The best evidence of neutron star properties come from binary systems of a neutron star together with a black hole, another neutron star, or an ordinary star. But, neutron stars are, by definition, very small (on the order of a dozen miles across), which makes it tough to distinguish subtle differences in their properties at immense distances. One area of research focuses on the expected gravitational wave profile of neutron stars that collide and merge with or without significant dark matter components.

There is also work being done on how the properties of ordinary stars, especially our own Sun, should be different if they absorb a predicted quantity of dark matter. But, again, the predicted effects are subtle.
 
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