Debunking the Existence and Duration of Virtual Particles

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the existence and duration of virtual particles, exploring their role in quantum field theory (QFT), their interpretation, and the implications of their existence or non-existence. Participants examine various models, including Hawking radiation and the Casimir effect, while addressing the philosophical and theoretical implications of these concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that virtual particles do not exist, questioning the validity of claims regarding their existence for a certain amount of time.
  • Others propose that all particles could be considered virtual, as they are always transitioning between interactions.
  • A participant notes that virtual particles are part of a mathematical model in QFT, specifically in perturbation theory, while some models like Lattice QFT do not include them.
  • There is mention of Hawking's model of black-hole evaporation, which is said to involve virtual particle/antiparticle pairs, though the particles are debated as purely mathematical constructs.
  • Some participants express that existence claims are interpretations rather than definitive theoretical statements, emphasizing that quantum mechanics can function without a single interpretation.
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of categorically stating that virtual particles do not exist, as this could lead to conflicting claims based on different interpretations.
  • Participants discuss the challenges of testing virtual particles and the nature of reality in quantum mechanics, suggesting that the inability to model what is real complicates the discussion.
  • The Casimir effect is mentioned as a phenomenon that may imply the existence of virtual particles, though some argue it can be explained without them.
  • There is speculation about the relationship between the expansion of space and the frequency of virtual particles.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the existence of virtual particles, with multiple competing views remaining. The discussion reflects a range of interpretations and opinions regarding the nature of virtual particles and their implications in physics.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of experimental evidence for virtual particles and the ongoing debate about their theoretical implications. The discussion highlights the complexity of defining what is considered "real" in the context of quantum mechanics.

  • #301
Drakkith said:
As your tiny sized text at the bottom says, they aren't real(which I agree with), so why is this even an issue?

because the main advantage of Feynman diagrams is that they have an intuitive description in terms of "virtual particles"

an intuitive description helps understanding (and memory)

but it's important to know what the limits of the description are

(eg, most aspects of quantum theory have a classical analogue with the same name … giving the same name helps understanding … but occasionally the analogy doesn't work, and it's important to remember when)
 
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  • #302
tiny-tim said:
in each observer's time, everything travels toward the future

if it had its "own time" (like a human), it could travel toward the past in its own time while traveling toward the future in the observer's time, in other words the observer would say it was getting younger

but it doesn't have its "own time"hi Drakkith! :smile:

it depends what you mean by "travel" …

(eg in general relativity, do we say that an object travels along its world-line, or merely that it has a world-line? :confused:)

each observer certainly regards it as traveling (from A to B or from B to A), but since different observers can't agree (for faster-than-light travel) on the direction, is it really traveling (or is it really only "being exchanged")? :smile:

(of course, i repeat: virtual particles aren't real, they're just mathematical artefacts that help in the calculations :wink:)


Ive asked around and have been told that virtual particles are real,whats the real with that?Tiny-Tim,I still don't understand,so what your saying is that virtual particles don't travel backwards in time?
 
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