Definiteness of a nonsymmetric matrix

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the definiteness of nonsymmetric matrices, exploring methods to analyze their properties, including potential transformations to symmetric forms and the implications of asymmetry on definiteness. Participants examine both theoretical approaches and specific examples related to quadratic forms.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests transforming a nonsymmetric matrix into a symmetric one to apply standard techniques for definiteness, questioning if this is a valid approach.
  • Another participant asserts that asymmetry introduces independent mixed terms, which can indicate indefiniteness.
  • A follow-up request for clarification on the previous point seeks to understand if making the matrix symmetric first is necessary for analysis.
  • A specific example of a matrix is provided, demonstrating how varying parameters can lead to indefinite behavior in the quadratic form associated with the matrix.
  • Another participant discusses the decomposition of a nonsymmetric matrix into symmetric and skew-symmetric parts, explaining how this can simplify the analysis of definiteness using established techniques.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity and validity of transforming nonsymmetric matrices into symmetric forms for definiteness analysis. Some argue for the importance of asymmetry in determining indefiniteness, while others propose alternative methods without consensus on the best approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific mathematical properties and techniques, but there are unresolved assumptions regarding the conditions under which these methods apply, particularly concerning the nature of the matrix elements and the implications of asymmetry.

Mathsadness
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TL;DR
How do we find what type of definiteness a nonsymmetric matrix has? All the definitions in my book refer to symmetric ones as they have nice properties.
There is no specific example but my attempt at one would be to make the non-symmetric matrix symmetric. Then we would be able the usual formulas as designed for symmetric matrices. Is this how it works?

Alternatively, do I just calculate the Eigen values without making it symmetric? I don't think that would be correct as that test is used for symmetric matrices. Any input would be appreciated.
 
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Asymmetry results in independent mixed terms which can be used to prove indefiniteness.
 
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fresh_42 said:
Asymmetry results in independent mixed terms which can be used to prove indefiniteness.
Can you please elaborate a bit? Wouldn't the process I mentioned above apply i.e making the matrix symmetric first and then use the usual procedure?
 
Let us consider ##Q=\begin{bmatrix}1&b\\c&1\end{bmatrix}##. The corresponding quadratic form is thus
$$
\vec{x}^\tau\cdot Q \cdot \vec{x}=(x,y)\;Q\;\begin{pmatrix}x\\y\end{pmatrix}= x^2+cxy+bxy+y^2=\left(x+y\right)^2+(b+c-2)xy
$$
Depending on the actual values of ##b## and ##c## you can easily make ##(b+c-2)xy## greater or less than ##-(x+y)^2## for some points ##(x,y)^\tau##. Hence it cannot always be positive or always be negative, hence indefinite.

For ##b=c## we get ##\vec{x}^\tau\cdot Q \cdot \vec{x}=(x+ by)^2+(1-b^2)y^2## which is at least positive definite if ##|b|<1\,##.
 
I'm not sure where Fresh was going with this. Since OP is evidently working over reals, the standard approach is to write

##A = \frac{1}{2}\big(A+A^T\big)+\frac{1}{2}\big(A-A^T\big) = S + Z##
which decomposes ##A## into symmetric and skew parts. Now for any ##\mathbf x\in \mathbb R^n## a defining characteristic of a real skew symmetric matrix ##Z## is ##\mathbf x^TZ\mathbf x =0## (check the transpose and confirm this for yourself).

Thus for any ##\mathbf x\in \mathbb R^n##
## \mathbf x^TA\mathbf x= \mathbf x^T\big(S + Z\big)\mathbf x = \mathbf x^TS\mathbf x + \mathbf x^TZ\mathbf x= \mathbf x^TS\mathbf x + 0 = \mathbf x^T\Big(\frac{1}{2}\big(A+A^T\big)\Big)\mathbf x##

thus to check for definiteness of ##A## you can apply the 'usual techniques' in your book, to ##\frac{1}{2}\big(A+A^T\big)##
 

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