Density constant along streamline of incompressible fluid

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of whether the density of an incompressible fluid remains constant along streamlines in a steady flow where the divergence of the velocity field is zero. Participants explore various approaches to demonstrate this concept, including the use of the continuity equation and considerations of mass flow in a tubular volume bounded by streamlines.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about how to approach the problem without using Bernoulli's equation, noting that the Lagrangian derivative of density is zero but does not confirm constancy along streamlines.
  • Another participant suggests proving the concept similarly to Bernoulli's equation by considering a section of a tube bounded by streamlines.
  • A participant describes their attempt to derive the continuity equation and questions the necessity of the velocity being orthogonal to the gradient of density.
  • Some participants discuss the assumption that fluid cannot pass through the sides of the tube and focus on the mass flow at the ends of the tube.
  • There is a debate about whether the areas at the ends of the tube can be assumed to be the same, with one participant suggesting that they can differ due to diverging streamlines.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the mass of fluid within the tube is not constant if density varies, leading to confusion about the implications of the derived expressions.
  • One participant clarifies that the mass flow out minus mass flow in relates to the integral expression, suggesting that if the velocity gradient is zero, the integral should equal zero.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the assumptions regarding the areas at the ends of the tube and the implications of varying density on mass flow. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the conditions under which density can be considered constant along streamlines.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in their assumptions about the relationship between density and mass flow, as well as the implications of the divergence of the velocity field. The discussion reflects ongoing uncertainty about the mathematical steps involved in proving the density constancy along streamlines.

jmz34
Messages
26
Reaction score
0
Question: Show that for a steady flow with div.u=0, the density is constant along streamlines.


I just don't see how to approach this question without Bernoulli's equation, I can see that the Lagrangian derivative of the density is zero but that doesn't specifically show that the density is constant along streamlines.

Thanks.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
hi jmz34! :smile:

try proving it the same way you would for Bernoulli's equation …

consider a section of a tube bounded by streamlines :wink:
 
Hi, thanks for your help- but I just need a bit more guidance.

By considering a tubular volume bounded by streamlines, I've considered the rate of change of mass inside this volume and equated it to the momentum flux through the surface.

This has led to the integral expression for the continuity equation- expanding out div.(pu) (where p=density and u=velocity), I've been able to use the fact that div.u=0 and I'm left with the remainder of the integral expression:

INT(dp/dt)dV=INT(u.grad(p))dV

I don't really see why u must be orthogonal to the gradient of p.

Thanks.
 
hi jmz34! :smile:

(have a rho: ρ and a grad: ∇ :wink:)

i'm not sure what you've done :confused:

since no fluid can go through the sides of the tube, all you need do is consider the rate of gain or loss of fluid at the two ends of the tube :wink:
 
tiny-tim said:
hi jmz34! :smile:

(have a rho: ρ and a grad: ∇ :wink:)

i'm not sure what you've done :confused:

since no fluid can go through the sides of the tube, all you need do is consider the rate of gain or loss of fluid at the two ends of the tube :wink:


Surely this is not a simple matter of saying:

(d/dt)INTρdV = INT(over end A) ρu(r).ds - INT(over end B) ρu(r+dr).ds

Where A and B are the ends of the tube.

I'm under the impression that it cannot be assumed that the densities at A, within the volume V and at B are the same.

This is probably a simple problem so sorry for not seeing it already.
 
ok, assume ρ depends on distance, and write it …

(d/dt) ∫ ρdV = ∫ (over end A) ρAu(r).ds - ∫ (over end B) ρBu(r+dr).ds …

(and then replace each ∫ by the area :wink:)
 
tiny-tim said:
ok, assume ρ depends on distance, and write it …

(d/dt) ∫ ρdV = ∫ (over end A) ρAu(r).ds - ∫ (over end B) ρBu(r+dr).ds …

(and then replace each ∫ by the area :wink:)

I'm still very confused.

Do we have to assume that the areas A and B are the same? Surely we can imagine a scenario where the streamlines diverge and so A and B are different.

Thanks very much for your help.
 
no, we assume A and B are different …

you should get AρAuA = BρBuB

(oh, I've just noticed, it needn't have been u(r) and u(r+dr) … the tube can be as long as we like :wink:)
 
tiny-tim said:
no, we assume A and B are different …

you should get AρAuA = BρBuB

(oh, I've just noticed, it needn't have been u(r) and u(r+dr) … the tube can be as long as we like :wink:)


So you're assuming that the mass of fluid within the tube is constant? I don't see how it's ok to say this, I mean if the density can vary- the mass within the tube can also vary?

But if I can understand that then the expression you've given makes sense since the velocity times area along the tube (the flux) must be constant.
 
  • #10
jmz34 said:
So you're assuming that the mass of fluid within the tube is constant?

no, I'm saying that mass out minus mass in = that integral, and if you put du/dx = 0, you should get that integral to be zero :smile:

(for example, using the divergence theorem)
 
  • #11
Ok thanks a lot for all your help :)
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
3K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 35 ·
2
Replies
35
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
8K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
4K