Density of states summation?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between discrete sums and integrals in the context of calculating partition functions and density of states, particularly in statistical mechanics. Participants explore the approximation of discrete sums by integrals, especially in large systems or thermodynamic limits.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that integrating over a density of states factor serves as an approximation to an infinite discrete sum, particularly in the context of partition functions or Debye solids.
  • Others argue that this approximation is valid when dealing with a large number of particles, suggesting that integration can replace summation in such cases.
  • A participant provides an example of numerical integration, illustrating how the choice of partition size (dx) affects the accuracy of the approximation between sums and integrals.
  • One participant notes that the approximation becomes exact in the thermodynamic limit, where the system is infinite with fixed finite density, and cautions about special modes like condensate states in bosonic systems.
  • Another participant mentions the use of Stirling's approximation in deriving the partition function, indicating that numerical analysis shows the approximation becomes valid quickly, and discusses the implications for simulations of small systems.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the integral serves as an approximation to the discrete sum, particularly in large systems. However, there are nuances regarding the conditions under which this approximation holds, and caution is advised in specific cases, indicating that the discussion remains somewhat unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the thermodynamic limit and the potential impact of special modes in certain systems, which may affect the validity of approximating sums with integrals.

pivoxa15
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If an infinite discrete sum is calculated via integrating over a density of states factor, is this integral an approximation to the discrete sum? i.e the discrete sums could be partition functions or Debye solids.
 
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you mean like when you have a huge amount of particles and instead of summing over all these particles to get the partition function you integrate?
Yes then it´s an approximation :)
 
Yes, it's an approximation, but it's a very, very good one. Suppose you were numerically integrating a slowly-varying function from 0 to 1e24. You'd probably do so using the definition of a Riemann integral, choosing a finite dx. That is, you'd partition the function into intervals, add their values together, and multiply by dx. So, if you chose dx=1e23, you'd add up the values of the function at 0, 1e23, 2e23, ..., 9e23 and multiply by 1e23. Of course, if you chose a smaller dx, (say 1e22) you'd get a better approximation to the integral. If you chose a dx=1, the error would be extremely small (differing by about 1e-24), and you'd get your answer by summing up the value at every integer and multiplying by 1. Of course, this means that the summation approximates the integral, and vice versa.
 
Within the context your question referes to, it is an approximation which becomes exact in the thermodynamic limit (infinite system with fixed finite density). This is precisely the limit in which standard results of statistical mechanics make sense. Mathematically, by taking the thermodynamic limit the sum becomes an integral by the very definition of the latter.It is also worth keeping in mind that caution is necessary in taking a sum to an integral when there are special modes like the condensate state in a bosonic system.
 
remember that when the partition function was derived, the assumption of large N was made in order to invoke the sterling approximation:

[tex]\ln(N!) \approx N \ln N - N[/tex]

numerical analysis shows that the approximation becomes valid very quickly. you can use the gamma function to investigate more thoroughly.

it is for this reason that we can get away with computer simulations of small particles and periodic boundaries (and still calculate meaningful averages). in fact, you can get reasonable results for a monoatomic gas of only 16 particles with periodic boundaries (at most state points, depending upon the potential).
 
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