Deriving Metric $$g_{ij}$$ w/ Respect to Time t

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the metric tensor $$g_{ij}$$ with respect to time $$t$$, particularly in the context of general relativity and the implications of differentiating along a world line. Participants explore the relationship between the metric, its dependence on time, and the appropriate use of derivatives in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether $$g_{ij}$$ depends on time and why the expression includes $$\frac{\partial x^k}{\partial t}$$ instead of simply using $$\frac{\partial g_{ij}}{\partial t}$$.
  • Another participant explains that $$g_{ij}$$ is generally a function of all space-time coordinates, indicating that differentiating along a world line requires consideration of both spatial and temporal coordinates.
  • A subsequent reply suggests that the parameterization of the world line could be done using the coordinate $$t$$, assuming a unique point on the world line for each $$t$$.
  • Further clarification is provided regarding the types of derivatives used in relativity, distinguishing between partial derivatives for fields and total derivatives for quantities defined along a path.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of understanding the context of the variables involved, particularly whether $$t$$ or proper time $$\tau$$ is being referenced.
  • Another participant introduces the notation $$g_{\mu \nu}$$ and discusses how to properly evaluate derivatives when considering both fields and path quantities, highlighting the need for the chain rule in such cases.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriate treatment of time in the context of the metric tensor and the types of derivatives to use. There is no consensus on whether to use $$t$$ or proper time $$\tau$$, nor on the implications of differentiating the metric tensor.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of derivatives in relativity, including the distinction between partial and total derivatives, and the implications of parameterizing world lines. There are unresolved questions about the assumptions underlying the use of $$t$$ versus $$\tau$$.

PhyAmateur
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Hello,

I have a simple question about deriving $$g_{ij}
\frac{\partial x^i}{\partial t}\frac{\partial x^j}{\partial t}$$
with respect to time t.

I have noticed that the first term after derivation turns out to be$$ \frac{\partial g_{ij}}{\partial x^k} \frac{\partial x^k}{\partial t}\frac{\partial x^i}{\partial t}\frac{\partial x^j}{\partial t}$$

Does $$ g_{ij} $$ depend on time? If so, why can't we just write $$ \frac{\partial g_{ij}}{\partial t} $$ Why did we plug in the $$x^k$$?
Thanks!
 
Last edited:
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Generally ##g_{ij}## is a function of all space-time coordinates. Along a world line, the ##t## coordinate is changing just as well as the spatial coordinates. It thus makes a difference if you are differentiating ##g## along a world line or just with respect to the time coordinate. The existence of the coordinate derivatives seem to indicate that you do want to differentiate with respect to a world line in which case the total derivative follows the chain rule:
$$
\frac{d}{dt} = \frac{dx^i}{dt}\frac{\partial}{\partial x^i} = \frac{\partial}{\partial t} + \vec v \cdot \vec\nabla.
$$
 
Thank you very much for your reply. You mean that what was supposed to be written is $$\tau$$ instead of t? And thus in this case, I should use the chain rule?
 
Well, you can also parameterise the world line with the coordinate ##t## (assuming that there is only one point on the world line for every ##t##). It may be that that is simply what is assumed about the parameterisation.
 
PhyAmateur said:
Hello,

I have a simple question about deriving $$g_{ij}
\frac{\partial x^i}{\partial t}\frac{\partial x^j}{\partial t}$$
with respect to time t.

I have noticed that the first term after derivation turns out to be$$ \frac{\partial g_{ij}}{\partial x^k} \frac{\partial x^k}{\partial t}\frac{\partial x^i}{\partial t}\frac{\partial x^j}{\partial t}$$

Does $$ g_{ij} $$ depend on time? If so, why can't we just write $$ \frac{\partial g_{ij}}{\partial t} $$ Why did we plug in the $$x^k$$?
Thanks!

There are several different types of derivatives used in relativity, and I think your question might be mixing up two different types. If you have a field, which is a quantity (real number, or a vector or a tensor) defined at every point in spacetime, you use partial derivatives or covariant derivatives. If you have a spacetime path [itex]\mathcal{P}(s)[/itex] and you have some quantity defined at each point along the path (where s is the path parameter), then you don't use partial derivatives, since the quantity only depends on one parameter, [itex]s[/itex]. You use a total derivative, [itex]\frac{d}{ds}[/itex]. In nonrelativistic physics, the path variable is typically the time [itex]t[/itex], but in relativistic physics, it is often proper time [itex]\tau[/itex] instead.

You write [itex]\frac{\partial x^i}{\partial t}[/itex]. But what is [itex]x^i[/itex]? If you mean that it is a coordinate, then what does it mean to take a partial derivative with respect to [itex]t[/itex]? Partial derivatives only make sense for fields--quantities defined at each point in spacetime.

What I'm guessing that you mean is that you have a path parametrized by [itex]t[/itex] (Do you really mean the time [itex]t[/itex], or do you mean the proper time [itex]\tau[/itex]?). So [itex]x^i(t)[/itex] is the coordinate describing the location along the path at time [itex]t[/itex]. In that case, you don't actually want a partial derivative, you want an ordinary derivative, [itex]\frac{dx^i}{dt}[/itex].

The other question about what you wrote is what the index [itex]i[/itex] or [itex]j[/itex] means in [itex]x^i[/itex] and [itex]g_{ij}[/itex]. In the mathematics of relativity, people usually combine spatial coordinates and the time coordinate [itex]t[/itex] into [itex]x^\mu[/itex], where, [itex]\mu[/itex] can be 0, 1, 2, or 3, and where [itex](x^0, x^1, x^2, x^3) = (t, x, y, z)[/itex].

So a more typical quantity that you might encounter in relativity is

[itex]g_{\mu \nu} \frac{dx^\mu}{d\tau}\frac{dx^\nu}{d\tau}[/itex]

This expression involves both fields ([itex]g_{\mu \nu}[/itex] is a tensor field) and path quantities ([itex]x^\mu(\tau)[/itex] is a function of a path variable, the proper time [itex]\tau[/itex]). It doesn't actually make sense to take a derivative of this quantity unless you make sense of it as a path quantity, or as a field. The way to make sense of it as a path quantity is to understand that [itex]g_{\mu \nu}[/itex] is supposed evaluated at the point [itex]x^\mu(\tau)[/itex]. So you really have:

[itex]g_{\mu \nu}(x^\lambda(\tau)) \frac{dx^\mu}{d\tau} \frac{dx^\nu}{d\tau}[/itex]

Now, everything is a function of [itex]\tau[/itex] and we can take a derivative with respect to [itex]\tau[/itex]. To take a derivative of [itex]g_{\mu\nu}(x^\lambda(\tau))[/itex] with respect to [itex]\tau[/itex], you have to use the chain rule:

[itex]\frac{d}{d\tau} g_{\mu\nu}(x^\lambda(\tau)) = (\frac{\partial}{\partial x^\lambda} g_{\mu \nu}) \frac{d x^\lambda}{d\tau}[/itex]
 
Last edited:
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Thank you very much for making this clearer!
 

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