Deriving the Lagrangian from the Hamiltonian operator

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the Lagrangian from the Hamiltonian operator in quantum mechanics, as well as the relationship between Lagrangian and Hamiltonian densities in quantum field theory. Participants explore the theoretical underpinnings and seek resources for deeper understanding.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the Hamiltonian and Lagrangian are Legendre transforms of each other in classical mechanics and suggests this relationship may hold in quantum mechanics and quantum field theory.
  • Another participant claims to have resolved their inquiry independently and expresses a desire for additional resources on the topic.
  • A third participant provides a link to an article that addresses some of the original questions but acknowledges that it is incomplete regarding the supernum/infinium aspect of the Legendre transform.
  • A later reply critiques the provided resource for its incompleteness and shares an alternative link, while also presenting a mathematical formulation related to the Lagrangian and action.
  • The same participant poses a question regarding why the action is minimized rather than maximized, given the convex nature of the Hamiltonian function.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the completeness of the resources provided or the interpretation of the Legendre transform in the context discussed. Multiple views on the derivation and its implications remain present.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the implications of the convexity of the Hamiltonian and its relationship to the minimization of the action, indicating a need for further exploration of these concepts.

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In classical mechanics, the Hamiltonian and the Lagrangian are Legendre transforms of each other. By analogy, in quantum mechanics and quantum field theory, the relationship between the Hamiltonian and the Lagrangian seems to be preserved. Where can I find a derivation of the Lagrangian operator as the Legendre transform of the Hamiltonian operator in quantum mechanics? Or a similar derivation for the Lagrangian density and Hamiltonian density in quantum field theory via the Legendre transform?
 
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Figured it out. No need to respond.
 
This article and the references cited in can address some of your questions :
https://arxiv.org/abs/0806.1147

Did you find some other interesting resources ? Please share.
 
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Thanks for the reply. I was already familiar with that article. Good resource, but incomplete; fails to mention the supernum/infinium aspect of the Legendre transform. Better: https://www.andrew.cmu.edu/course/33-765/pdf/Legendre.pdf

I figured out the question on my own.

One interesting note:

Given:

## \mathcal{L}(\vec{v},\vec{q},t)=\sup \left[ \langle \vec{p},\vec{v} \rangle - \textbf{H}(\vec{p},\vec{q},t)\right]##
##=\sup \left[ \vec{p}\cdot \vec{v} -\left( \frac{\vec{p}^2}{2 m}+ V\right)\right]##
##=\sup \left[ m\vec{v}\cdot\vec{v} -\left( \frac{m^2\vec{v}^2}{2 m}+ V\right)\right]##
## =\sup \left[ m\vec{v}^2 -\left( \frac{m\vec{v}^2}{2}+ V\right)\right]##
## =\sup \left[ \frac{m\vec{v}^2}{2}- V\right]##
And:
## \mathcal{S}=\int_{t_1}^{t_n} \mathcal{L}(\vec{v},\vec{q},t)dt##

Question: Why is the action ##\mathcal{S}## minimized (and not maximized), given that ##\textbf{H}(\vec{p},\vec{q},t)## is a convex function and therefore ##\mathcal{L}(\vec{v},\vec{q},t)## is a supernum (not an infimum)?
 
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