Determinant of a transposed matrix

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    Determinant Matrix
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the determinant of a transposed matrix, specifically examining the mathematical proof of the equality between the determinant of a matrix and the determinant of its transpose. Participants explore various notations, definitions, and approaches to demonstrate this relationship, with a focus on permutations and their properties.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a detailed proof using the definition of the determinant involving permutations and sign changes, aiming to show that each summand in the determinant of the original matrix corresponds to a summand in the determinant of the transposed matrix.
  • Another participant suggests simplifying the argument by using the group of permutations, indicating that a bijection exists between the permutations of the matrix and its transpose, which could streamline the proof.
  • A different participant expresses discomfort with the abstract algebra concepts, indicating a lack of familiarity with permutation groups, and clarifies their earlier statements regarding row-orderings in the context of the determinant.
  • One participant elaborates on the properties of permutations, emphasizing the uniqueness of inverse permutations and their relationship to the sign of the permutation, which they argue supports the equality of the determinants.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present multiple competing views on the proof and its notation, with no consensus reached on the best approach or clarity of the argument. Some participants advocate for different methods of explanation, while others critique the existing notation and complexity.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the participants' familiarity with abstract algebra and permutation groups, which may affect their ability to fully engage with the mathematical concepts presented. Additionally, the proof relies on assumptions about the properties of permutations that are not universally agreed upon in the discussion.

Eclair_de_XII
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TL;DR
Let ##A## be a matrix of size ##(n,n)## where ##n\in\mathbb{N}##. Then the determinant of ##A## is equal to the determinant of ##A## transposed, to be denoted ##A^T##.
By definition, ##\det A=\sum_{p_j\in P}\textrm{sgn}(p_j)\cdot a_{1j_1}\cdot\ldots\cdot a_{nj_n}##, where ##P## denotes the set of all permutations of the ordered sequence ##(1,\ldots,n)##. Denote the number of permutations needed to map the natural ordering to ##p_j## as ##N_j##.

Now consider ##\det A^T## which is equal to:
\begin{align}\sum_{p_i\in P}\textrm{sgn}(p_i)\cdot a_{i_11}\cdot\ldots\cdot a_{i_nn}\end{align}

Note: ##i_k## denotes the element of ##p_i## at the k-th index.

To show equality, we must show that each summand in ##\det A## is also in ##\det A^T##. In other words, we must show that there is a permutation ##p_l## s.t.:
\begin{align}
\textrm{sgn}(p_l)\cdot a_{l_11}\cdot\ldots\cdot a_{l_nn}=\textrm{sgn}(p_j)\cdot a_{j_11}\cdot\ldots\cdot a_{j_nn}
\end{align}

Consider the ordered list:
\begin{align}(i_1,1),\ldots,(i_n,n)\end{align}

For each element in the list, there is an integer ##m## s.t. ##j_m=k##. It will take ##N_j## permutations in order to map this ordering to an ordering of the form:
\begin{align}(i_1',j_1),\ldots,(i_n',j_n)\end{align}

where ##(i_1',\ldots,i_n')## is the ordering obtained from permutating ##p_i## wrt the ordering ##p_j##. Bearing in mind that ##\prod_{k=1}^n a_{i_kk}\equiv \prod_{k=1}^n a_{i_k'j_k}##, we have:
\begin{align}
\textrm{sgn}(p_i)\cdot\prod_{k=1}^n a_{i_kk}=\textrm{sgn}(p_j)\cdot\textrm{sgn}(p_{i'})\cdot\prod_{k=1}^n a_{i_k'j_k}
\end{align}

It will take ##N_{i'}## permutations to map ##p_{i'}## to the natural ordering. This corresponds to ##N_{i'}## sign changes:
\begin{align}
\textrm{sgn}(p_j)\cdot\prod_{k=1}^n a_{kj_k}=\textrm{sgn}(p_{i'})\cdot\left[\textrm{sgn}(p_j)\cdot\textrm{sgn}(p_{i'})\cdot\prod_{k=1}^n a_{i_k'j_k}\right]
\end{align}

% I am asking for critique on this proof. Is it accurate? Is it understandable? Is there any unnecessary notation I used?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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Generally one uses S_N for the group of permutations of \{1, \dots, N\} and \sigma and \rho for arbitrary permutations. You can simplify your notation and argument significantly by using the fact that S_N is a group acting on \{1, \dots, N\}.

By definition <br /> \begin{split}<br /> \det A &amp;= \sum_{\sigma \in S_N} \operatorname{sgn}(\sigma) a_{1\sigma(1)} \cdots a_{N\sigma(N)}, \\<br /> \det A^T &amp;= \sum_{\rho \in S_N} \operatorname{sgn}(\rho) a_{\rho(1)1} \cdots a_{\rho(N)N}.<br /> \end{split} Your claim is then that there exists a bijection from S_N to itself such that if \sigma \mapsto \rho_\sigma then for each \sigma \in S_N we have <br /> \operatorname{sgn}(\sigma) a_{1\sigma(1)} \cdots a_{N\sigma(N)} = \operatorname{sgn}(\rho_\sigma) a_{\rho_\sigma(1)1} \cdots a_{\rho_\sigma(N)N}. (We need a bijection because we want each summand of \det A to appear exactly once in the sum for \det A^T and vice versa). Ordering the factors on the left hand side by the second index rather than the first is the way to proceed, but because \sigma is a permutation this can be done in one step: The factor with second index i has first index \sigma^{-1}(i). Two basic facts about permutation groups complete the proof.
 
Unfortunately, I've not taken abstract algebra during my undergraduate career, so I am unfamiliar with groups and would be uncomfortable attempting to implement them in my explanation/proof.

I meant to say in the last two lines that given any row-ordering ##p_i## in a summand of the determinant of the transpose, there is a row-ordering ##p_{i'}## that can be applied to ##p_i##. The row-ordering ##p_{i'}## is how I described it earlier. This resulting ordering corresponds to an arbitrary term in the determinant of the original matrix.
 
Last edited:
What I would write is: For every permutation ##\sigma## in the set of permutations (denoted ##S_N##) there exists a unique inverse permutation ##\sigma^{-1}## in the set of permutations and where no two distinct permutations have the same inverse.

Say ##\sigma (i) = j## then

$$
a_{i \sigma(i)} = a_{ij} = a_{\sigma^{-1} (j) j}
$$

so that

$$
\prod_{i=1}^N a_{i \sigma (i)} = \prod_{i=1}^N a_{\sigma^{-1} (i) i} .
$$
If ##\sigma## is an even permutation then obviously ##\sigma^{-1}## is also an even permutation. If ##\sigma## is an odd permutation then obviously ##\sigma^{-1}## is also an odd permutation. Therefore,

$$
\text{sgn} (\sigma) = \text{sgn} (\sigma^{-1})
$$

and

$$
\text{sgn} (\sigma ) \prod_{i=1}^N a_{i \sigma (i)} = \text{sgn} ( \sigma^{-1} ) \prod_{i=1}^N a_{\sigma^{-1} (i) i} .
$$

Then

\begin{align*}
\det (A) & = \sum_{\sigma \in S_N} \text{sgn} (\sigma ) \prod_{i=1}^N a_{i \sigma (i)}
\nonumber \\
& = \sum_{\sigma \in S_N} \text{sgn} ( \sigma^{-1} ) \prod_{i=1}^N a_{\sigma^{-1} (i) i}
\nonumber \\
& = \sum_{\sigma \in S_N} \text{sgn} ( \sigma ) \prod_{i=1}^N a_{\sigma (i) i} = \det (A^T)
\end{align*}

where we have arrived at the last line by noting that for every permutation ##\sigma## in ##S_N## there exists a unique inverse permutation ##\sigma^{-1}## in ##S_N## and where no two distinct permutations have the same inverse, and so we are in effect summing over all permutations in ##S_N## in the second line.
 
Last edited:

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