Determining the Function with Identities

  • Context: MHB 
  • Thread starter Thread starter evinda
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Function identities
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the nature of a function \( f(x) \) based on given identities and integrals. Participants explore whether \( f(x) \) can be shown to be a constant function, considering various conditions such as continuity and specific values of \( f \).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that under certain identities and integrals, \( f(x) \) can be shown to equal a constant \( c \).
  • Another participant challenges the final step of the first argument, suggesting that without continuity, other solutions may exist.
  • A specific alternative function is presented, which is piecewise defined and not constant, highlighting the need for continuity in the original claim.
  • A different proof is introduced, showing that if \( f(ax+b) = f(x) \) for a continuous function, then \( f \) must be constant.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus. There are competing views regarding the conditions under which \( f(x) \) can be considered constant, particularly concerning the continuity of \( f \).

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the continuity of \( f \) and the implications of specific values, which remain unresolved. The mathematical steps leading to conclusions are not fully detailed, leaving some aspects open to interpretation.

evinda
Gold Member
MHB
Messages
3,741
Reaction score
0
Hi guys!I have a question..How can I show that the function that has the following identities:

\bullet f(x)\neq 0 ,x\in\mathbb{R}.
\bullet f(0)=f\left(\dfrac{2}{3}\right).
\int_{0}^{x}\frac{f(t)f(x-t)}{f(\frac{2+t}{3})f(\frac{2+x-t}{3})}=\int_{0}^{x}\frac{f^2{(t)}}{f^2{(\frac{2+t}{3}})}
is f(x)=c..??
That's what I did:

=>\int_{0}^{x}\frac{f(t)f(x-t)}{f(\frac{2+t}{3})f(\frac{2+x-t}{3})}=\int_{0}^{x}\frac{f^2{(t)}}{f^2{(\frac{2+t}{3}})}

\frac{f(x)f(0)}{f(\frac{2+x}{3})f(\frac{2}{3})}=\frac{f^2{(x)}}{f^2(\frac{2+x}{3})} .

Because f(0)=f(\frac{2}{3})

\frac{f(x)}{f(\frac{2+x}{3})}=\frac{f^{2}(x)}{f^2(\frac{2+x}{3}){}}

=> f^2{(\frac{2+x}{3})}f(x)=f^2{(x)}f{(\frac{2+x}{3})}

=>f{(\frac{2+x}{3})}=f(x) , f(x) \neq 0

=>f(x)=c

Is this right? :confused:
 
Physics news on Phys.org
evinda said:
Hi guys!I have a question..How can I show that the function that has the following identities:

\bullet f(x)\neq 0 ,x\in\mathbb{R}.
\bullet f(0)=f\left(\dfrac{2}{3}\right).
\int_{0}^{x}\frac{f(t)f(x-t)}{f(\frac{2+t}{3})f(\frac{2+x-t}{3})}=\int_{0}^{x}\frac{f^2{(t)}}{f^2{(\frac{2+t}{3}})}
is f(x)=c..??
That's what I did:

=>\int_{0}^{x}\frac{f(t)f(x-t)}{f(\frac{2+t}{3})f(\frac{2+x-t}{3})}=\int_{0}^{x}\frac{f^2{(t)}}{f^2{(\frac{2+t}{3}})}

\frac{f(x)f(0)}{f(\frac{2+x}{3})f(\frac{2}{3})}=\frac{f^2{(x)}}{f^2(\frac{2+x}{3})} .

Because f(0)=f(\frac{2}{3})

\frac{f(x)}{f(\frac{2+x}{3})}=\frac{f^{2}(x)}{f^2(\frac{2+x}{3}){}}

=> f^2{(\frac{2+x}{3})}f(x)=f^2{(x)}f{(\frac{2+x}{3})}

=>f{(\frac{2+x}{3})}=f(x) , f(x) \neq 0

=>f(x)=c

Is this right? :confused:

Hi evinda!

It all looks good except for the last step.
(Oh, and you may want to add $dt$ to both integrals. ;))

For instance, since you did not specify that f is continuous, another solution would be:
$$f(x)=\begin{cases}
1 & \text{ if } \exists k \in \mathbb Z \text{ such that } x=1-3^k \\
2 & \text{ otherwise}
\end{cases}$$

With the additional condition that f is continuous, it does follow that $f(x)=C$.
This can be proven by picking a point with a different value and consider what that means for the limit where $x \to 1$ (proof by contradiction).
 
Last edited:
Nice!Thank you veery much! :p
 
Hi,
I can't quite figure out the hint. But here's a direct proof:
Let a and b be any reals with -1<a<1 and f a continuous function with f(ax+b)=f(x) for all x. Then f is a constant function.
Proof.
Let x be any real. Define the sequence xn inductively by x0 = x and for for n>0, xn=axn-1+b. Then an easy induction shows xn=anx+b(an-1)/(a-1). By hypothesis, f(x)=f(xn) for all n. So f(x)=limit as n approaches infinity f(xn)=f(-b/(a-1)); i.e. f is constant.
 
Great..Thank you! :o
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
Replies
3
Views
2K