- #1
PatrickP2
- 16
- 2
Can someone explain to me why at room temperature acids cannot dissolve diamond? Is it related to its hardness?
Click For Summary
Discussion Overview
The discussion revolves around the question of why acids cannot dissolve diamond at room temperature, exploring the relationship between diamond's chemical structure and its interaction with acids. Participants examine the properties of acids, the nature of diamond, and the implications of the term "dissolve."
Discussion Character
- Exploratory
- Debate/contested
- Conceptual clarification
Main Points Raised
- Some participants question the assumption that acids should dissolve diamond, suggesting that the hardness of diamond may not be the primary factor.
- One participant mentions that hydrofluoric acid can dissolve glass but does not react with diamond, raising curiosity about the reasons behind this difference.
- Another participant notes that hydrofluoric acid is a weak acid, comparing its strength to vinegar, and questions its relevance to the discussion.
- It is pointed out that diamond lacks good protonation sites in its lattice structure, making it chemically similar to a large alkane.
- One participant emphasizes that the term "dissolve" is vague and does not adequately describe the chemical processes involved, particularly contrasting the reactions of metals and glass with acids to that of diamond.
- There is speculation that the OP may be conflating "dissolve" with "react," and participants suggest considering the elemental composition of diamond and its structural properties.
- Concerns are raised about the OP's understanding of acids and their effects, with a suggestion that clarification from the OP would be beneficial.
- Humorous remarks are made about the enduring nature of diamonds, reflecting a light-hearted tone amidst the technical discussion.
Areas of Agreement / Disagreement
Participants express a range of views on the nature of diamond and its interaction with acids, with no consensus reached on the underlying reasons for the inability of acids to dissolve diamond at room temperature. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives presented.
Contextual Notes
Participants highlight the ambiguity of the term "dissolve" and the need for clarity regarding the chemical processes involved. There is also a recognition of the complexity of chemical interactions, with some suggesting that exceptions may exist.
- #2
Vanadium 50
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Education Advisor
Gold Member
Dearly Missed
- 35,005
- 21,705
To help focus the answer, why do you think they should?
- #3
PatrickP2
- 16
- 2
What do you mean?Vanadium 50 said:
- #4
berkeman
Admin
- 69,372
- 24,710
PatrickP2 said:
Well, for one thing, do acids dissolve the glass bottles that they are stored in?
- #5
PatrickP2
- 16
- 2
I read once that hydrofluoric acid can dissolve glass, whereas it does not react with diamond. I am curious why this is the case? Is it because the carbon atoms are so close together?
- #6
Vanadium 50
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Education Advisor
Gold Member
Dearly Missed
- 35,005
- 21,705
Hydrofluoric is a weak acid. It's about as strong as vinegar.
Why bring it up?
Why bring it up?
- #7
PatrickP2
- 16
- 2
The reason I mention this is that the acid is capable of dissolving glass.Vanadium 50 said:
[Mild insult removed by the Mentors]
- #8
symbolipoint
Homework Helper
Education Advisor
Gold Member
- 7,640
- 2,080
Diamond is a very different chemical than most "glass".
- #9
berkeman
Admin
- 69,372
- 24,710
In fairness to the OP, I'm the one who brought up glass.symbolipoint said:
- #10
Vanadium 50
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Education Advisor
Gold Member
Dearly Missed
- 35,005
- 21,705
I really wish the OP would let us know where is coming from. I fear it's "acids dissolve everything", and if so, we need to get him off that idea sooner rather than later.
- #11
Mayhem
- 425
- 317
There are no good protonation sites in the diamond lattice. In a strictly molecular sense, diamond is similar to one big alkane.
- #12
Borek
Mentor
- 29,179
- 4,607
"Dissolve" in this context is so general a term it becomes meaningless.
In most cases "dissolve" means something disappears in contact with the solution (of acid), but it doesn't tell us what was the process/reaction behind. Metals typically get oxidized by H+, unless they are noble and require stronger oxidizers (like aqua regia, which technically is "just" a mixture of acids, yet it produces very strong oxidizing agent, completely unrelated to H+). Glass contains silicone dioxide, which reacts with HF producing gaseous SiF4 - that's a completely different situation and completely different reaction. Neither will work with diamond.
I don't remember hearing of acids capable of oxidizing diamond, there is no simple reaction/process which could make it happen. Could be there are some exotic cases though, chemistry is full of exceptions - but even if, the process behind will be completely unrelated to the ones mentioned.
In most cases "dissolve" means something disappears in contact with the solution (of acid), but it doesn't tell us what was the process/reaction behind. Metals typically get oxidized by H+, unless they are noble and require stronger oxidizers (like aqua regia, which technically is "just" a mixture of acids, yet it produces very strong oxidizing agent, completely unrelated to H+). Glass contains silicone dioxide, which reacts with HF producing gaseous SiF4 - that's a completely different situation and completely different reaction. Neither will work with diamond.
I don't remember hearing of acids capable of oxidizing diamond, there is no simple reaction/process which could make it happen. Could be there are some exotic cases though, chemistry is full of exceptions - but even if, the process behind will be completely unrelated to the ones mentioned.
- #13
DrJohn
- 212
- 192
I suspect that by "dissolve" the OP actually means react.
For example a metal dissolving in acid is reacting, but I'll bet someone will come up with an exception to this. Also when stating hydrofluoric acid dissolves glass, it is reacting with it. But mainly ignore HF when thinking about acids in general.
If so, the OP should consider what diamonds are composed of, and then ask does that element react with acids. And then ask is there something special about the structure of diamond.
For example a metal dissolving in acid is reacting, but I'll bet someone will come up with an exception to this. Also when stating hydrofluoric acid dissolves glass, it is reacting with it. But mainly ignore HF when thinking about acids in general.
If so, the OP should consider what diamonds are composed of, and then ask does that element react with acids. And then ask is there something special about the structure of diamond.
- #14
Mayhem
- 425
- 317
It seems that the surface of carbons are reactive (not surprising), so perhaps strong reagents could eat away at the outer layer, and slowly compromise the structructure, but at room temperature? Unlikely.DrJohn said:
- #15
symbolipoint
Homework Helper
Education Advisor
Gold Member
- 7,640
- 2,080
No. Do not expect to dissolve diamonds. Diamonds Are Forever! Just ask Shirley.
(humor)
(humor)
- #16
Vanadium 50
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Education Advisor
Gold Member
Dearly Missed
- 35,005
- 21,705
Who could forget Plenty O'Toole. (Named after her father)symbolipoint said:
Seriously, the game "guess what the OP means" usually just goes around in circles. If he is still interested he can tell us.
Similar threads
- · Replies 3 ·
- · Replies 6 ·
- · Replies 1 ·
- · Replies 8 ·
- · Replies 14 ·
- · Replies 1 ·
High School
If light beam travels through a vacuum, then through diamond, then through more vacuum...
- · Replies 15 ·
- · Replies 7 ·