Did hitler personally kill anyone?

[Smurf]

As far as I'm aware the thing Hitler personally and directly killed was his dogs whom he poisoned. Everyone else was killed by his Waffen SS or soldiers. Does anyone know any time he actually directly murdered anyone?

 

[russ_watters]

I'm not sure, but I tend to doubt that he did. Guys like him don't need to do the messy work for themselves.

 

[selfAdjoint]

Does anyone know if he killed anybody as a soldier in WWI?

 

[Pengwuino]

Well, a quick look in wiki says he was a messenger so he probably didn't kill anyone in WW1

 

[Smurf]

but he did get a few medals in WW1 and he was wounded 3 times, so he did see action.

 

[Pengwuino]

but he did get a few medals in WW1 and he was wounded 3 times, so he did see action.

Says he took some rather dangerous missions...

 

[Smurf]

did he kill anyone on those missions?

 

[chound]

Is there any good character about Hitler.
I'm really impressed by his ability to inspire so many people to kill Jews.
His mustach(wot's the correct spelling) and haircut is really cool!

 

[selfAdjoint]

Is there any good character about Hitler.
I'm really impressed by his ability to inspire so many people to kill Jews.
His mustach(wot's the correct spelling) and haircut is really cool!

I just can't understand this attitude, that you can abstract "cool" elements for current use from the image of one of the most horrible persons in history. Similarly you see images of Che and Mao used for purely decorative purposes. What message does this send to future generations?

 

[Pengwuino]

I just can't understand this attitude, that you can abstract "cool" elements for current use from the image of one of the most horrible persons in history. Similarly you see images of Che and Mao used for purely decorative purposes. What message does this send to future generations?

Might as well throw in the swastika for that matter. Maybe .1% of the kids who wear things like that even know of its pre-Nazi meaning... which leaves the rest of these idiots walking around with a symbol of one of the worst displays of genocide in modern times. I also have a problem with its use for political protests. I've heard quite a few WW2 over the years say its use in the US for political protests are disrespectful to outright disgusting. They say nothing in the United State's recent history, no act of congress, ideological group, politician, etc etc could even come close to what the Nazi's did. I am still rather amazed such a movement and its actions could have ever existed in such recent times but I'm even more .. well disgusted at how kids these days seem so far removed from what actually happened that they'll use such symbols for whatever purpose without a second though.

 

[zoobyshoe]

did he kill anyone on those missions?

There's no record or report of him ever having killed anyone with his own two hands.

I'm curious as to why you ask, though. Given the 50,000,000 people who died in WWII, what particular difference would it make if he'd personally killed any of them?

 

[scott1]

Does anyone know if he killed anybody as a soldier in WWI?

WWI.In his autobiography he said that he was in combat but he just made that up he was just a courier during WWI.

 

[zoobyshoe]

WWI.In his autobiography he said that he was in combat but he just made that up he was just a courier during WWI.

His position as courier involved getting messages around during firefights and shelling. He "saw" plenty of combat, was wasn't participating in it himself.

 

[Bystander]

"Courier" carries a connotation of something along the lines of "the singing telegram" in Clue; he was a "runner" at the "small unit" level, keeping OPs, LPs, Co. HQ, bunkers, and the like in communication with one another. Bottom line? He worked in "trench knife" country, and survived the war. Did he have to fight his way out of ambushes, trench raids, or any of the other "no man's land" and near "no man's land" festivities of the time? Unknown. He did pick up an Iron Cross, and that ain't too shabby for the enlisted ranks in that army in that war; suggests he may have had to do a little more than deliver Xmas cards.

"Murder?" Depending upon sources, there are questions surrounding Rohm's death and the death of one of his early girlfriends.

 

[zoobyshoe]

You're saying someone thinks he executed Rohm himself?

 

[Bystander]

That's an inference drawn from accounts of the event --- and you just had to ask me whose inference (not percolating to the conscious level at the moment) --- based upon a lot of second-hand and circumstantial "testimony:" Hitler supposedly was carrying a drawn pistol when storming Rohm's residence; his orderly borrowed cleaning equipment following the event; and an unscheduled change of clothing. Strikes me the source is on the "suspicious" shelf alongside The Mind of Adolf Hitler, the OSS commissioned psychological profile.

 

[NewScientist]

To my knowledge he never killed anybod and looking at him from a psychoanalytical historical point of view, and reading the studies I have, i believe it is outside of his character.

Rohm and Hitler were close - rohm had been with him since the beginning and was killed solely as a method of pacifing the army and conservatives. Rohm was killed by the SS and Army on the Knight of the Long Knives.

Oh actually hitler killed his family

 

[zoobyshoe]

That's an inference drawn from accounts of the event --- and you just had to ask me whose inference (not percolating to the conscious level at the moment) --- based upon a lot of second-hand and circumstantial "testimony:" Hitler supposedly was carrying a drawn pistol when storming Rohm's residence; his orderly borrowed cleaning equipment following the event; and an unscheduled change of clothing. Strikes me the source is on the "suspicious" shelf alongside The Mind of Adolf Hitler, the OSS commissioned psychological profile.

Under the circumstances I suppose there is some remote possibility he shot Rohm himself, althought it's out of character for him. But there was at least one other time he almost shot someone when he happened to have a pistol and was in a frenzy: himself. It was the wife of Ernst Hanfstaengle who physically stopped him. She had been trained in Judo.

 

[Bystander]

(snip) althought it's out of character for him.(snip)

Up front: I ain't defending the guy; nor am I being contrary just for the sake of being contrary.

It's difficult to establish just what his "character" was, and just what he was and was not capable of doing. The OSS character profile to which I alluded earlier has been incorporated explicitly or implicitly into every study I've seen about the man.

There's a real psychological block to ackowledging the fact that he was human, and that his thoughts, words, and deeds are things of which we're all capable. He was a monster, certainly, but he was not an anomaly.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Up front: I ain't defending the guy; nor am I being contrary just for the sake of being contrary.

No, I understand that.

It's difficult to establish just what his "character" was, and just what he was and was not capable of doing. The OSS character profile to which I alluded earlier has been incorporated explicitly or implicitly into every study I've seen about the man.

I've read parts of it quoted. To the extent they diagnose him as essentially paranoid I have to agree with it. "Paranoid Schizophrenic" is probably wrong because it neglects that obvious (today) extreme mania. Today he'd probably be called "Schizoaffective". I think if they were able to give him the whole battery of neurological tests, though, they'd find all kinds of deficits. Toward the end there, one of his arms was trembling uncontrolably, and he couldn't walk without dragging a foot.

There's a real psychological block to ackowledging the fact that he was human, and that his thoughts, words, and deeds are things of which we're all capable. He was a monster, certainly, but he was not an anomaly.

I used to assume that; that under the wrong circumstances anyone might end up as a Hitler, but I don't think so anymore. Some people, because of unrecognized neurological problems coupled with psychological abuse and or neglect, end up much more prone to that than most. They're unstable to begin with, so really bad experiences twist them more grotesquely than other people. There may be a large number of incipient Hitlers, I don't know, but that large number is actually a tiny percentage of the total number of people.

 

[Bystander]

No, I understand that.

Was pretty sure you did --- just didn't feel like dealing with misunderstandings from elsewhere.

I've read parts of it quoted. To the extent they diagnose him as essentially paranoid I have to agree with it.

Paranoid? Yeah --- on the other hand, there are very few people on the planet who can afford not to be --- it's a survival trait. Plus, the old question whether he's paranoid if people really are out to get him. Propaganda purposes demanded a personality assessment that could be lampooned.

"Paranoid Schizophrenic" is probably wrong because it neglects that obvious (today) extreme mania. Today he'd probably be called "Schizoaffective". I think if they were able to give him the whole battery of neurological tests, though, they'd find all kinds of deficits. Toward the end there, one of his arms was trembling uncontrolably, and he couldn't walk without dragging a foot.

Recall, he was under the care/tutelage of a real quack for his physical health (arsenic for the digestive disorders), and probably not fully recovered from the bomb injuries.

I used to assume that; that under the wrong circumstances anyone might end up as a Hitler, but I don't think so anymore. Some people, because of unrecognized neurological problems coupled with psychological abuse and or neglect, end up much more prone to that than most. They're unstable to begin with, so really bad experiences twist them more grotesquely than other people. There may be a large number of incipient Hitlers, I don't know, but that large number is actually a tiny percentage of the total number of people.

You went from "benefit of a doubt" to "special case," and I went from "anomalous monster" to "benefit of a doubt." Maybe some one somewhere will trip over new material that sheds some light --- not going to hold my breath --- we're probably stuck with the hash, rehash, rerehash, ... reⁿhash of the same old stuff.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Paranoid? Yeah --- on the other hand, there are very few people on the planet who can afford not to be --- it's a survival trait. Plus, the old question whether he's paranoid if people really are out to get him. Propaganda purposes demanded a personality assessment that could be lampooned.

Paranoia is very different than being circumspect and cautious for survival reasons. He pretty much set himself up such that he insured there'd be huge numbers of people out to get him. At the end of WWI no one knew who he was or cared. He spent years calling attention to himself in the worst way. Cautious people who want to survive don't do that. They keep a low profile.

Anyway, I'm not aware that that personality assessment was ever made public while he was alive, and, did anything in it really make it into any anti-Hitler propaganda? I had the impression that study was undertaken just to assess what they were up against, strengths and weaknesses.

Recall, he was under the care/tutelage of a real quack for his physical health (arsenic for the digestive disorders), and probably not fully recovered from the bomb injuries.

Those symptoms I mentioned might well have their roots in the things you cited.
However, there were peculiar neurological things going on well before that. There are two films I've seen of him in the throes of this very strange, exited, rocking from side to side. One was during a speech. The other, he was sitting alone in some bleachers in a stadium by himself, rocking left-right left-right, very fast. (I think that was some footage taken before a rehearsal for some speech or other.) At Berchesgarten he used to go out alone onto a large patio and pace back and forth ranting out loud to no one for about three hours a day. Stories of him doing that go back to a report of a neighbor seeing him do it as a boy or teenager in the yard back of his house. In Mein Kampf he, himself, confessed that he blacked out when he stood up and shouted for 20 minutes from the audience at the first meeting of the NSDAP he attended. People congratulated him for his patriotism and ferver afterward but he, himself, couldn't remember a word he'd said.

Something very weird happened to him once he got started shouting. He had to have been experiencing a gross distortion of his sense of time (I mean, who in their right mind gives 5 hour speeches?). Then there are those stories of him starting off shouting at someone and ending up writhing on the floor chewing on the carpet. One of his aids coined a secret nickname for him: "Der Teppichfresser".
He did not start out with a sound brain. That is: I believe there was something organically wrong with it. Blacking out and hours of shouting everyday = some kind of pathology.

 

[arildno]

Very few have the rhetorical talent Hitler had. Thus, very few, if anyone, would be able to duplicate his "feats". Fortunately.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Very few have the rhetorical talent Hitler had. Thus, very few, if anyone, would be able to duplicate his "feats". Fortunately.

Thing is, Mao and Stalin did pretty much the same thing without being the same kind of oraters. Then you have Pol pot, Idi Amin, and Saddam Hussein, among others. None of them Hitler style orators.

 

[Andre]

Very few have the rhetorical talent Hitler had. Thus, very few, if anyone, would be able to duplicate his "feats". Fortunately.

Don't count on that. There are hundreds now. Some modern rethorical talent:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/devon/outdoors/nature/2005/rspb_climate.shtml
http://yosemite.epa.gov/oar/globalwarming.nsf/content/index.html
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/green/comment/0,9236,1007302,00.html
http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/oh-what-a-tangled-web

The recipe is identical to the interbellum between WW I and WW II:

Step one: Use your rhetorical talent to create an enemy (choose your favorite: heathens, huns, commies, capitalists, global warming, skeptics)
Step two: Use your rhetorical talent to agitate the masses against the threat, offering scary scenarios.
Step three: suggest a way out under your leadership.

No war scenario? Just wait until the impossible bills of Kyoto need to be paid.

And we vowed that it would never happen again but if you don't (want to) learn from history, you're bound to repeat it.

 

[Pengwuino]

I really don't suspect that greenpeace is going to be able to cause anything on the scale of world war II anytime soon..

 

[arildno]

Thing is, Mao and Stalin did pretty much the same thing without being the same kind of oraters. Then you have Pol pot, Idi Amin, and Saddam Hussein, among others. None of them Hitler style orators.

Here, the major difference between these guys and A.H. is that while they were certainly able to influence enough individuals to retain power (and, from that power base be able to exert their atrocities), A.H. managed to make practically every German into a fervent Jew-hater and make persecution into a widely popular MASS MOVEMENT. This is not true of any of the guys mentioned.

While the "feats" of Mao, Stalin etc. might well be duplicated, those by Hitler is a lot rarer.

 

[Andre]

I really don't suspect that greenpeace is going to be able to cause anything on the scale of world war II anytime soon..

The first Kyoto war will start at 21 December 2012.

Scenario:

Orange land had joined the Kyoto treaty as the last in 2004 when it became apparent that it's economical crisis would ensure meeting the emission standards, Now in 2012, it has succeeded in reducing the emissions to the agreed level but observes that many other countries do not, and worse those countries are not showing any intention of paying the enforced fee for that. Now it has organized a Kyoto enforcement pact with the other countries that did the meet the standards as well.

The White land confederation that used to be a prosperous unity is in a deep crisis due to the attempts to abide Kyoto but failed. Now it's unable to cut back any further and it's unable to pay more than 0,0005% of the fee.

The Orange land pact invades the White land confederations on horseback and with carts to enforce the payment of the fee. The First Kyoto war

 

[Bystander]

Paranoia is very different than being circumspect and cautious for survival reasons. He pretty much set himself up such that he insured there'd be huge numbers of people out to get him.

Step 1 in any political career.

At the end of WWI no one knew who he was or cared. He spent years calling attention to himself in the worst way. Cautious people who want to survive don't do that. They keep a low profile.

Anyway, I'm not aware that that personality assessment was ever made public while he was alive,

OSS commissioned the study in a genuine effort to be able to predict his moves in advance; they got a load of Freudian quackery that was useless, and turned it over to the propaganda dept.. Make it public? You don't tell the homefront that they are being manipulated.

and, did anything in it really make it into any anti-Hitler propaganda? I had the impression that study was undertaken just to assess what they were up against, strengths and weaknesses.


Those symptoms I mentioned might well have their roots in the things you cited.
However, there were peculiar neurological things going on well before that. There are two films I've seen of him in the throes of this very strange, exited, rocking from side to side. One was during a speech. The other, he was sitting alone in some bleachers in a stadium by himself, rocking left-right left-right, very fast. (I think that was some footage taken before a rehearsal for some speech or other.)

More of the "Versailles dance." Kinda doubt that trick was used just once.

At Berchesgarten he used to go out alone onto a large patio and pace back and forth ranting out loud to no one for about three hours a day.

Demosthenes shouted at the waves with a mouthful of pebbles. Does wonders for voice control.

Stories of him doing that go back to a report of a neighbor seeing him do it as a boy or teenager in the yard back of his house.

Do you know how many people talked to Ted Bundy and "knew" he was going to do something awful?

In Mein Kampf he, himself, confessed that he blacked out when he stood up and shouted for 20 minutes from the audience at the first meeting of the NSDAP he attended. People congratulated him for his patriotism and ferver afterward but he, himself, couldn't remember a word he'd said.

Unless you are one of the one in a hundred, you can't remember a single word of the first two minute speech you presented in Jr. High or Middle School.

Something very weird happened to him once he got started shouting. He had to have been experiencing a gross distortion of his sense of time (I mean, who in their right mind gives 5 hour speeches?). Then there are those stories of him starting off shouting at someone and ending up writhing on the floor chewing on the carpet. One of his aids coined a secret nickname for him: "Der Teppichfresser".

Figure of speech, a colloquialism, much as critics describe Robin Williams acting style as "gnawing on the scenery." The literal translation was taken as fact by someone "freshly fallen from the turnip truck" and incorporated into the "why we fight" films and cartoons.

He did not start out with a sound brain. That is: I believe there was something organically wrong with it. Blacking out and hours of shouting everyday = some kind of pathology.

It is the pathology of politics. The man was a traditionalist, believing in face to face rallies rather than fireside chats, but otherwise indistinguishable from Roosevelt, or Churchill and "Fight them on the beaches, in the dunes, in the hedgerows, in the cottages, from the ditches..."

 

[zoobyshoe]

Here, the major difference between these guys and A.H. is that while they were certainly able to influence enough individuals to retain power (and, from that power base be able to exert their atrocities), A.H. managed to make practically every German into a fervent Jew-hater and make persecution into a widely popular MASS MOVEMENT. This is not true of any of the guys mentioned.
While the "feats" of Mao, Stalin etc. might well be duplicated, those by Hitler is a lot rarer.

I see the distinction you're making, but I'm not sure it's as important as you make it. If Pol Pot manages to gather enough people around him as he needs to seize power and persecute "intellectuals" (which is what he did), then it doesn't matter that he doesn't have mass support. All he needs is mass passivity, lack of opposition, while he rampages, and sets up killing fields. Mao and Stalin each executed more of their own countrymen in their seizure and maintainence of power than Hitler killed Jews. I don't remember the figure for Stalin, but I'm sure I read Mao executed at least ten million Chinese during his tyranny. So, after a point you would find the average Chinese person spouting rabid anti-capitalist jargon, in order not to be taken away and executed, just as the average German learned to vilify Jews and give the Hitler salute when meeting a neighbor.

As far as I know, there were only ever two orator-dictators, Hitler and Mussolini, and in the long haul of history, they were unusual for that. The usual method is terror and behind the scenes machinations. Mussolini and Hitler did both of those as well.