Did the US Attempt to Overthrow Hamas in Gaza?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the United States' alleged attempts to influence the political situation in Gaza, particularly regarding Hamas and Fatah. Participants explore historical instances of U.S. interventions and their outcomes, reflecting on the effectiveness and consequences of such actions.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference a Vanity Fair article detailing a plan by the Bush administration to support Fatah in removing Hamas from power in Gaza, highlighting internal controversies within the administration.
  • One participant questions the success of U.S. interventions historically, citing examples like the Bay of Pigs and the Shah of Iran, suggesting a pattern of failure.
  • Another participant asserts that the U.S. was successful in deposing Saddam Hussein, though this claim is met with skepticism regarding the broader consequences of that intervention.
  • Concerns are raised about the human and financial costs associated with U.S. interventions, particularly in Iraq, suggesting that regime change does not equate to successful governance.
  • There is a distinction made between the success of regime change and the subsequent stability of the affected regions, with some participants arguing that the chaos following such interventions undermines the notion of success.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the effectiveness of U.S. interventions, with some asserting success in specific cases while others highlight the negative outcomes and question the overall efficacy of such actions. No consensus is reached on the success or failure of U.S. attempts to influence regimes.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific historical events and their interpretations, which may depend on varying definitions of success and failure in foreign interventions. The discussion reflects a range of perspectives on the implications of U.S. actions in the Middle East.

fourier jr
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I remember this. I was really surprised when Hamas won.

Vanity Fair reports in its April edition that President George Bush and the secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, signed off on a plan for the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, to remove the Hamas authorities in Gaza. The plan called for Washington's allies in the region to funnel arms and salaries to Fatah fighters who would lead a rising against Hamas.

But the project was controversial even within the administration, the magazine reports. "There were severe fissures among neoconservatives over this," David Wurmser, a former Middle East adviser to the vice-president, Dick Cheney, told the magazine. "We were ripping each other to pieces."

Wurmser resigned his post in the vice-president's office in July 2007, only weeks after bloody clashes in Gaza between Hamas and Fatah that led to the Islamist organisation taking total control of the territory. "It looks to me that what happened wasn't so much a coup by Hamas but an attempted coup by Fatah that was pre-empted before it could happen," he said.

The Bush administration plan sought to undo the results of elections in the West Bank and Gaza in January 2006 which, to the chagrin of White House and State Department officials, saw Hamas win a majority of seats in the Palestinian legislature.

The project was approved by Bush, Rice, and Elliott Abrams, the hawkish deputy national security adviser.

The 2006 election result was seen as an affront to the central premise of the Bush administration's policy in the Middle East - that democratic elections would inexorably lead to pro-western governments.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/04/usa.israelandthepalestinians
 
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When's the last time the US successfully overthrew something? Bay of Pigs? Shah of Iran? Saddam Hussein?

Seriously, we should just accept that we suck at this and find something else to do.
 
Gee, I'm surprised. :rolleyes: And upset [ :rolleyes: ]
 
Last edited:
Poop-Loops said:
When's the last time the US successfully overthrew something? Bay of Pigs? Shah of Iran? Saddam Hussein?
I'm reasonably certain we were successful in deposing Saddam Hussein.
 
Yeah, it only took how many wasted lives? How many wasted dollars? And an entire country in chaos, to top it off.

Looks like we did a fine job.
 
russ_watters said:
I'm reasonably certain we were successful in deposing Saddam Hussein.

i think the attempt to have him over thrown in gulf war I by the Kurds was a failure. the invasion and occupation of Iraq was vary successful in (if little else) regime change though
 

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