Diff. eq. for the Einstein metric inside a body

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the differential equation derived from the Einstein equations to describe the metric inside a body. Participants explore numerical solutions and the challenges posed by the functions involved in the equation, particularly focusing on the implications of singularities and the conditions for integrability.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a differential equation related to the Einstein metric and seeks numerical solutions, noting a potential cusp in the solution.
  • Another participant suggests a transformation of variables that leads to a different form of the differential equation, asking for insights on its analysis.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the possibility of finding an analytical solution due to the unknown nature of the functions D1(y) and D2(y), emphasizing the difficulty of numerical solutions as well.
  • One participant clarifies the forms of D1(y) and D2(y) and discusses the implications of approaching y=0, indicating that it leads to non-physical results.
  • There is a suggestion that the problem could be simplified if the functions were known, but this is contested by others who highlight the complexity of the equations involved.
  • Participants discuss the numerical methods that could be employed, including the Runge-Kutta method, while also noting the potential for singularities in the solutions.
  • One participant expresses a desire to find literature that addresses the type of differential equation being discussed, particularly regarding conditions for integrability.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the complexity and challenges of solving the differential equation, but there is no consensus on the feasibility of analytical solutions or the conditions under which numerical solutions may fail.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the unspecified nature of the functions D1(y) and D2(y), which affects the ability to solve the differential equation analytically or numerically. The discussion also highlights the presence of singularities in the numerical solutions, which complicates the analysis.

gijeqkeij
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Solving the Einstein eq. i found the following differential eq. that would descrive the metric inside a body:
x2d2y(x)/dx2+2xD1(y)dy(x)/dx+D2(y)=0
where D1(y) and D2(y) are known function of y and 0<=x<=1.
I try to solve numerically but looks like there is a cusp; any suggestion how to approach that eq. or some links where that eq. is treated?
Ty
 
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If we change the x with x=exp(-t) we have the following diff. eq.:
d2y/dt2+(1-2D1)dy/dt+D2=0
where 0<=t<=[tex]\infty[/tex].

Any hint? Do you know where this kind of eq. has been analyzed?

Ty
 
Hi.

Yes this is very difficult task you want to solve, but for my opinion is unsolvable in analytical way!
Why?
You don't know what kind of functions are [tex]D_{1}(y), D_{2}(y)[/tex] this is main problem and even not knowing whether you can solve analytical or numerical, but for solving numerical this is very difficult task. If you know what function are [tex]D_{1}(y), D_{2}(y)[/tex] than is trivial task as you already know :smile:
 
MrSnoopy said:
Hi.

Yes this is very difficult task you want to solve, but for my opinion is unsolvable in analytical way!
Why?
You don't know what kind of functions are [tex]D_{1}(y), D_{2}(y)[/tex] this is main problem and even not knowing whether you can solve analytical or numerical, but for solving numerical this is very difficult task. If you know what function are [tex]D_{1}(y), D_{2}(y)[/tex] than is trivial task as you already know :smile:

Thanks Snoopy. Actualli I know the D1(y)=A1*(B1-ye)/ye+1/2 and D2(y)=A2(1-ye)(B2-ye)/y2e-1... (Ai, Bi, e are costants) but the problems is that when i try to solve that equation numerically y->0 for a finite value of t and that has no physical meaning (the metric degenerates at a finite (>0) distance from the center of the star). Why u said it's trivial if i would know D1 and D2?
 
No problem gijeqkeij.
It is only expression we use to simplify our life :smile:

Trivial task is only when"thinking" in numerical solving problem without analytical solution.
On the other hand you can see, with your note, that [tex]D(y), y \neq y(x)[/tex] but you are want to solve DE [tex]y''(t)+C_{1}\; y'(t)= C_{2}[/tex]
where [tex]C_{1}, C_{2}[/tex] are only constants.
If I understand you correctly [tex]D_{1,2}(y),\; D_{1,2} \neq D_{1,2}(y(t))[/tex], if so you just have to solve DE second degree analytical :wink:

Glad to help
MrSnoopy
 
MrSnoopy said:
No problem gijeqkeij.
It is only expression we use to simplify our life :smile:

Trivial task is only when"thinking" in numerical solving problem without analytical solution.
On the other hand you can see, with your note, that [tex]D(y), y \neq y(x)[/tex] but you are want to solve DE [tex]y''(t)+C_{1}\; y'(t)= C_{2}[/tex]
where [tex]C_{1}, C_{2}[/tex] are only constants.
If I understand you correctly [tex]D_{1,2}(y),\; D_{1,2} \neq D_{1,2}(y(t))[/tex], if so you just have to solve DE second degree analytical :wink:

Glad to help
MrSnoopy

Sorry Snoopy I guess I was unclear. The eq. to solve is: [tex]y''(t)+C_{1}(y(t))\; y'(t)= C_{2}(y(t))[/tex]. I thought that kind of eq. received some attention in literature and I wonder if somebody can help me in finding papers that analyze that type of DE. Thanks
 
Hy :smile:

You wrote something like this:
[tex]D_{1}(y) = A_{1}\frac{B_{1}-y^{e}}{y^{e}}+\frac{1}{2}[/tex] and
[tex]D_{2}(y) = A_{2} (1-y^{e})\frac{B_{2}-y^{e}}{y^{2e-1}}\;\;\; ...[/tex]

where are [tex]A_{1}, A_{2}, B_{1},B_{2}, e=exp(1) \in const[/tex]. OK this DE cannot be solve analytical :smile:

Numerical approach :wink:

[tex]x^{2}y''(x)+\left[2xA_{1}(B_{1}y(x)^{-e}-1)+x \right]y'(x) +A_{2}(B_{2}-y^{e})(y^{1-e}-y^{1-2e}) = 0[/tex]

For knowing [tex]y(x=?)= ..., y'(x= ?)= ...[/tex] than make DE something like this:
[tex]y'_{1} = y_{2}[/tex]
[tex]y'_{2} = -\frac{1}{x^{2}}\left[\left(2A_{1}x(B_{1}y^{-e}_{1}-1)+x\right)y_{2}+A_{2}(B_{2}-y^{e}_{1})(y^{1-e}-y^{1-2e})\right][/tex]

This is best to solve with Runge-Kutta 5 degree or with ode45 in MatLab or Octave.
I attach file with Runge-Kutta method in file.m (MatLab, Octave).
Write like this in MatLab:
[tex]f=inline([\; 'y(1)' \; ;\; '\frac{1}{x^2}\left[... \right]'\;], 'x' , 'y' )[/tex]

In Runge-Kutta file will output vector dimension 2*n where n is steps make in calculation.
Where you want do solve this equation on interval [tex]I[/tex] second column in function RungeKutta5, [tex]y0(x=?)=[y(x=?) , y'(x=?)][/tex] and for n put 100 or more.

I hope I helped you :smile:

MrSnoopy
 

Attachments

Thanks Snoopy... that help but the problem is that a numerical solution bring to a singularity somewhere for t=t* (finite value). I wonder if somebody has analyzed that kind of eq. to identify what are (if any) the conditions for it's integrability.
 

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