Difference between a normal wave function and a standing-wave function

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation of wave functions, specifically the distinction between normal wave functions and standing-wave functions. Participants explore the conditions under which a wave function can be considered as either a traveling wave or a standing wave, as well as the mathematical transformations involved in this interpretation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the wave function can be expressed as a cosine function, which can represent both standing and traveling waves depending on the context.
  • Questions arise regarding the conditions necessary to interpret the wave function as a standing wave.
  • One participant suggests using a trigonometric identity to transform the wave function into a sum of two standing waves, questioning whether this sum can also be considered a standing wave.
  • Another participant expresses confusion about the relationship between traveling waves and standing waves, asking if the decomposition of a traveling wave into two standing waves is merely a mathematical quirk or if it has a physical basis.
  • Concerns are raised about the persistence of standing sound waves in open-ended pipes, questioning why the waves do not dissipate immediately upon reaching the ends.
  • It is noted that a standing wave can also be decomposed into two traveling waves, which may have a physical interpretation related to waves reflecting between fixed boundaries.
  • A participant emphasizes the distinction between a single standing wave and the sum of two standing waves, suggesting a more complex understanding of wave behavior in different reference frames.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of the wave function and its representations, indicating that multiple competing views remain. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the conditions for interpreting the wave function as a standing wave or the implications of wave decomposition.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express difficulty in visualizing trigonometric expressions and the implications of wave behavior in different contexts, which may limit their understanding of the discussion.

Nikitin
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Hello! So as you all know the wave-function can be expressed as:

[tex]y(x,t) = A\cos(kx-\omega t)[/tex]

However, this can be interpreted as both a standing and moving wave. So when do you interpret it as either of those? Are there any special conditions that should be written along with the wave function?
 
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How can this be interpreted as a standing wave?
 
For the difference between traveling waves and standing waves, see e.g. here:

http://www.physics.buffalo.edu/claw/Page15/ProjectCLAW-P15.html

This page uses sines instead of cosines, but the idea is the same in either case.
 
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Vanadium 50 said:
How can this be interpreted as a standing wave?

You could just use a identity to transform it into

[tex]A\cos(kx)\cos(\omega t)- A\sin(kx)\sin(\omega t)[/tex]

Which is a sum of two clearly standing waves.

Am I wrong in saying that sum is a standing wave too? I have difficulties in graphing trig expressions in my mind.

jtbell: ahh, thanks I'll check it out now
 
OK after checking out jtbell's excellent website I see that I am an idiot for thinking that the wave function can be used to model a standing wave.

But still, what's up with a moving wave being the sum of two standing waves? Is this a random math-quirk or is there some physics behind this?

EDIT: Also, isn't it a bit weird that a standing-sound wave in a pipe open-ended on both sides is able to survive and stay standing for a long time? You'd think the two waves making up the standing wave would just dissipate out the ends the moment they reach them, but for some reason the waves get reflected back?
 
Last edited:
Nikitin said:
You could just use a identity to transform it into

[tex]A\cos(kx)\cos(\omega t)- A\sin(kx)\sin(\omega t)[/tex]

Which is a sum of two clearly standing waves.

Yes, you can decompose a traveling wave into a sum of two standing waves. You can also decompose a standing wave into a sum of two traveling waves, which has a natural physical interpretation in terms of a single wave "bouncing back and forth" between the fixed ends of the string (or whatever the medium is).
 
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At risk of stating the obvious, your OP said "a (one) standing wave" which is not quite the same as "the sum of TWO standing waves".

If you want to make this more fun, think about a vibration pattern in a rotating disk, when the pattern and the disk are rotating at a different angular velocities: (1) in a coordinate system fixed to the earth, (2) in a system fixed to the disk.

(Hint: the frequency you "see" looking from the Earth is not the same as the frequency you see (or feel?) if you are sitting on the disk. This is similar to the Doppler effect.)
 

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