Difference between line vector and free vector

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on the differences between line vectors and free vectors as described in Roy Featherstone's "Rigid Body Dynamics Algorithms." Participants explore the definitions, characteristics, and applications of these concepts within the context of spatial algebra and rigid body dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks clarification on the distinction between line vectors and free vectors, noting that a line vector is characterized by a directed line and magnitude, while a free vector is characterized by magnitude and direction.
  • Another participant suggests that a line vector includes additional components for rotational angles (theta and phi), implying it can describe an object's physical orientation in space.
  • A participant questions why a linear force, which has direction and magnitude, is classified as a line vector rather than a free vector.
  • Further discussion includes references to Plucker coordinates and the mathematical relationships that define line vectors and free vectors, including conditions under which a spatial vector can be classified as either type.
  • Participants express confusion over the mathematical formulations and relationships presented in the text, particularly regarding the uniqueness of expressions involving line vectors and free vectors.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and interpretation of the definitions and properties of line vectors and free vectors. There is no consensus on the precise distinctions or implications of these concepts, indicating ongoing debate and exploration.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential ambiguities in the definitions and mathematical formulations provided in the source material, such as the conditions under which a spatial vector can be classified as a line vector or a free vector.

mytch
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Hi,

I started to study Roy Featherstone's book "Rigid Body Dynamics Algorythms".

The book starts off by explaining Spatial Algebra, where translations and rotations are gathered in a 6-D vector using Plucker's coordinates.

At some point the book says;

"A line vector is a quantity that is characterized by a directed line and a magnitude.
A pure rotation of a rigid body is a line vector, and so is a linear force
acting on a rigid body. A free vector is a quantity that can be characterized by
a magnitude and a direction. Pure translations of a rigid body are free vectors,
and so are pure couples. A line vector can be specified by five numbers, and
a free vector by three. A line vector can also be specified by a free vector and
any one point on the line."

Can someone explain the difference between line vector and free vector in different words, especially the part where a line vector can be specified by five numbers.

my current understanding would be that a free vector is the common euclidean vector, but then in the formulation above the two seem to differ by the fact that one is characterized by a directed line and the other by a direction. What's the difference ?

Disclaimer; most of my algebra is self taught so if say some non-sense, that's why :)

Hopefully this is the right location for such a post.

Michael
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Welcome to PF!

My understanding is a free vector has direction and magnitude.

and it sounds like a line vector has additional components for theta and phi rotational angles (think spherical coordinate angles).

So a line vector could be used to describe a physical object in space including its rotation about the vector.

Does that make sense?

This may help too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigid_body_dynamics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigid_body
 
Last edited:
Thank you, it makes sense for the most part :)

so if a line vector is defined by a vector plus theta and phi (relative to the basis axis?) the text would mean;

"A pure rotation of a rigid body is a line vector"; the vector would be 0 and theta and phi would be the rotation of the body relatively to the basis of the space.

"so is a linear force acting on a rigid body"; that one i don't get, why would a linear force need to be a line vector and not just a free vector.

"Pure translations of a rigid body are free vectors"; Ok

"so are pure couples"; OK but then how is it different from the linear force?
 
Here is the following part of the text that may help too, it's quite confusing to me.

"Let ^s be any spatial vector, motion or force, and let s and sO be the two 3D coordinate vectors that supply the Plucker coordinates of ^s."
[me; in Plucker coordinates s are 3 rotations angles around the basis axis, and sO a vector, though here it seems to be saying that they are 2 vectors]

"Here are some basic facts about line vectors and free vectors.
 If s = 0 then ^s is a free vector."
[me: yes only sO is left and that's is a vector]

"If s.sO = 0 then ^s is a line vector. The direction of the line is given by
s, and the line itself is the set of points P that satisfy OP X s = sO."
[me: in order to do a dot product here, it has to be 2 vectors, but then that's different from Plucker coordinates?]

"Any spatial vector can be expressed as the sum of a line vector and a free vector. If the line vector must pass through a given point, then the expression is unique.

Any spatial vector, other than a free vector, can be expressed uniquely as
the sum of a line vector and a parallel free vector. The expression (for a
motion vector) is

Code:
|     s    |     |  0   |
| sO - hs  |   + |  hs  | where h =  (s.sO) / (s.s)

[me: The | above are supposed to be big [] ]

This last result implies that any spatial vector, other than a free vector, can be described uniquely by a directed line, a linear magnitude and an angular magnitude. Free vectors can also be described in this manner, but the description is not unique, as only the direction of the line matters. "

Any help with this would be much appreciated.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
5K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 43 ·
2
Replies
43
Views
8K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
5K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
10K
  • · Replies 50 ·
2
Replies
50
Views
5K
Replies
2
Views
3K
Replies
4
Views
2K