Different proof of the derivative of e^x

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    Derivative E^x Proof
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around a proposed proof of the derivative of e^x, exploring the validity of certain mathematical assertions and manipulations involving limits and variable substitutions. Participants examine the correctness of the proof and the implications of using specific variables in limit expressions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a proof claiming that the derivative of e^x is e^x and questions the correctness of their rules involving infinitives.
  • Another participant suggests that a mistake was made by not subtracting out terms, which could lead to the erroneous assumption that infinity minus infinity equals zero.
  • A different participant argues that the proof contains several errors, particularly in the use of variable labels, stating that the same symbol was used for different variables, which is problematic.
  • Concerns are raised about the validity of certain limit expressions, specifically questioning whether the limits presented are independent and correctly manipulated.
  • One participant clarifies that if 1/a = d, then the limit assertion holds true, but emphasizes the importance of using distinct variable labels to avoid confusion in proofs.
  • Another participant discusses the conditions under which certain limit expressions could be true, highlighting the dependency of variables and the potential for indeterminate forms.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the validity of the proposed proof and the correctness of the assertions made. There is no consensus on the proof's validity or the correctness of the mathematical claims presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations related to variable dependency and the potential for indeterminate expressions in the context of limits. The discussion highlights the need for careful variable management in mathematical proofs.

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On the third-to-last line you could have just subtracted out the n terms. This would allow you to not make the mistake of assuming infinity - infinity = 0.
 
No, that's not a valid proof. You've made several errors. For example, the claim

[tex]\lim_{y\rightarrow 0} \frac{z}{y} = \lim_{n\rightarrow \infty} zn[/tex]
is valid due to the change of variables 1/y = n, but you then go and plug this into a formula which already has a variable labelled n which is different and indepedent from1/y. So, you should more appropriately have labelled it 1/y = m, so m and n remain independent. Your entire result relies on using the same symbol for two different variables.

Another error is that you cannot multiply "rule B" by y. Given 1/y = m you can conclude 1 = my, but you cannot make the claim that
[tex]\lim_{y \rightarrow 0} 1/y = \lim_{m\rightarrow \infty} m \Rightarrow 1 = \lim_{y\rightarrow 0}\lim_{m \rightarrow \infty} my[/tex]

The implication is not correct.
 
Last edited:
I guess my original question was are these assertions correct independently, even if i didn't prove them?

Is this true?
[tex]\lim_{a\rightarrow 0} \frac{b}{a} = \lim_{d\rightarrow \infty} bd[/tex]

[tex]1 = \lim_{y\rightarrow 0}\lim_{m \rightarrow \infty} my[/tex]
 
Natel said:
I guess my original question was are these assertions correct independently, even if i didn't prove them?

Is this true?
[tex]\lim_{a\rightarrow 0} \frac{b}{a} = \lim_{d\rightarrow \infty} bd[/tex]

If you define 1/a = d, then yes, this is true. However, if you plug this into an expression which has a variable already labelled a or d, then you have to use a different letter to denote one of these variables, because they are not the same. This is a mistake you made in your proof: you set 1/y = n, but you already had an n in your expression, so you should have let 1/y = m. Your proof would have then had to work out different, because your manipulations depended on the confusion between the n from "1/y = n" and the n that was already present in your expression.

[tex]1 = \lim_{y\rightarrow 0}\lim_{m \rightarrow \infty} my[/tex]

If m and y are independent, no. The right hand side is an indeterminate expression. If m depends on y somehow, then it could be true, but then you would only have one limit on the right hand side because m is a function of y. If m = 1/y, then you get
[tex]\lim_{y \rightarrow 0} m(y)y = y/y = 1,[/tex]
but if m = ln(y), you get
[tex]\lim_{y \rightarrow 0} m(y)y = y\ln(y) = 0.[/tex]
 

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