Differential Equation with Vectors

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a complex differential equation involving a 3D vector, specifically focusing on methods to solve for the unknown vector \(\theta(t)\). Participants explore various approaches, including decomposition into scalar components and numerical methods, while expressing uncertainty about analytical solutions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests decomposing the original vector differential equation into three scalar differential equations.
  • Another participant proposes simplifying the equation using vector identities, leading to a potentially more manageable form, but notes that it remains nonlinear and difficult to solve analytically.
  • A later reply indicates that there may not be an analytical solution, advocating for a numerical approach instead, specifically mentioning the Runge-Kutta method.
  • Some participants express a lack of familiarity with the Runge-Kutta method, while others mention that software like Matlab can facilitate its application.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the equation is complex and likely does not have an analytical solution, leaning towards numerical methods. However, there is no consensus on the best approach or specific methods to use.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the nonlinear nature of the equation and the challenges it presents for analytical solutions. There are also references to specific software tools that may assist in solving the equations numerically.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in solving complex differential equations, particularly those involving vector calculus, and for those looking for numerical methods to approach such problems.

nburo
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Hello everyone, I have the following differential equation :

[tex]\dot{\theta}(t) = \omega(t) - \frac{1}{2}\theta(t)\times\omega(t) + \frac{1}{\Vert\theta(t)\Vert^2}\left(1-\frac{\Vert\theta(t)\Vert}{2}cot\frac{\Vert\theta(t)\Vert}{2}\right)\theta(t)\times[\theta(t)\times\omega(t)][/tex]

where [tex]\omega(t)[/tex] is a known 3D vector with the form :

[tex]\omega(t) = [a_1+b_1*t , a_2+b_2*t , a_3+b_3*t ][/tex]

also, [tex]\theta(t)[/tex] is the unknown 3D vector that we need to find. Its norm is [tex]\Vert\theta(t)\Vert[/tex].

This type of math is too high for me. If you guys know a way to solve it for [tex]\theta(t)[/tex] with Maple, Mathlab or Scilab, I'd be happy, because anyone of those seems to explain how to solve an equation that contains vectors. I think a solver would be more appropriate because the equation is quite "big", if you know what I mean.

Thanks.
 
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Try decomposing it into its scalar components first.

Then you get a system of 3 diffeq's
 
Thanks, but ok, le's say I decomposed it in 3 differential equations. Here I'll have :

[tex]\frac{d}{dt}\theta_1(t) = F(\theta_1(t), \theta_2(t), \theta_3(t) )[/tex]
[tex]\frac{d}{dt}\theta_2(t) = F(\theta_1(t), \theta_2(t), \theta_3(t) )[/tex]
[tex]\frac{d}{dt}\theta_3(t) = F(\theta_1(t), \theta_2(t), \theta_3(t) )[/tex]

Let's say I use Maple to solve, what do I have to do next?
 
Hi there!

Why not trying to simplify the equation at first:

[tex]\theta\times(\theta\times\omega)=\theta(\theta\omega)-\omega ||\theta||^2)[/tex]

plugging it in the equation gives:

[tex]\dot\theta=\omega-\frac{1}{2}\theta\times\omega+\frac{1}{||\theta||^2}(1-\frac{||\theta||}{2}\cot\frac{||\theta||}{2})(\theta(\theta\omega)-\omega ||\theta||^2)[/tex]

now, let's get rid of some terms, let's left-operate with x theta:

[tex]\theta\times\dot\theta=\theta\times\omega-\frac{1}{2}\theta\times(\theta\times\omega)+\theta\times\frac{1}{||\theta||^2}(1-\frac{||\theta||}{2}\cot\frac{||\theta||}{2})(\theta(\theta\omega)-\omega ||\theta||^2)[/tex]


[tex]\theta\times\dot\theta=\theta\times\omega-\frac{1}{2}\theta\times(\theta\times\omega)+\frac{1}{||\theta||^2}(1-\frac{||\theta||}{2}\cot\frac{||\theta||}{2})(\theta\times\theta(\theta\omega)-\theta\times\omega ||\theta||^2)[/tex]

observe that [tex]\theta\times\theta=0[/tex] and (\theta\omega) is a scalar

[tex]\theta\times\dot\theta=\theta\times\omega-\frac{1}{2}\theta\times(\theta\times\omega)+\frac{1}{||\theta||^2}(1-\frac{||\theta||}{2}\cot\frac{||\theta||}{2})(-\theta\times\omega ||\theta||^2)[/tex]

now, simplfying a little gives:

[tex]\theta\times\dot\theta=\theta\times\omega-\frac{1}{2}\theta\times(\theta\times\omega)+(1-\frac{||\theta||}{2}\cot\frac{||\theta||}{2})(-\theta\times\omega)[/tex]

and using [tex]\omega\times\theta=-\theta\times\omega[/tex]

[tex]\theta\times\dot\theta=\theta\times\omega-\frac{1}{2}\theta\times(\theta\times\omega)-\theta\times\omega-\frac{||\theta||}{2}\cot\frac{||\theta||}{2}\theta\times\omega[/tex]

or

[tex]-2\theta\times\dot\theta=\theta\times(\theta\times\omega)+||\theta||\cot\frac{||\theta||}{2}\theta\times\omega[/tex]

Well, to me it looks a tiny little bit better, the inhomogenety is at least not there any more , but the equation remains nonlinear which makes it hardly solvable analytically.
 
nburo said:
Thanks, but ok, le's say I decomposed it in 3 differential equations. Here I'll have :

[tex]\frac{d}{dt}\theta_1(t) = F(\theta_1(t), \theta_2(t), \theta_3(t) )[/tex]
[tex]\frac{d}{dt}\theta_2(t) = F(\theta_1(t), \theta_2(t), \theta_3(t) )[/tex]
[tex]\frac{d}{dt}\theta_3(t) = F(\theta_1(t), \theta_2(t), \theta_3(t) )[/tex]

Let's say I use Maple to solve, what do I have to do next?


Marin had taken all the trouble to show that probably there is no analytical solution. So I suggestion is that we go for numerical solution. Much easier. How about using Runge-Kutta method?
 
Wow thanks guys! Your responses are very interesting and useful! Unfortunately, I don't really know much about the Runge-Kutta method =/
 
nburo said:
Wow thanks guys! Your responses are very interesting and useful! Unfortunately, I don't really know much about the Runge-Kutta method =/

That's all right there are a lot of programs that will do Runge-Kutta 4th order method for you. I know in particular that Matlab has ode45() which is pretty easy to use if you have matlab.
 

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