Difficulty in understanding step in Deriving WKB approximation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the WKB approximation from the semiclassical Schrödinger equation, specifically focusing on the application of the Laplacian operator to the wave function expressed in terms of amplitude and phase. Participants explore the mathematical steps involved and clarify the use of coordinate systems in the derivation process.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the semiclassical Schrödinger equation and the ansatz for the wave function, seeking clarification on how to derive a specific expression involving the Laplacian operator.
  • Another participant provides a derivation of the chain rule for vector derivative operators, which aids in simplifying the expression for the Laplacian of the exponential term.
  • A participant expresses confusion over additional terms arising when applying the spherical Laplacian, questioning the validity of their approach and the assumptions made regarding coordinate dependence.
  • Further discussion highlights the importance of using the correct form of the Laplacian in spherical coordinates and the implications of coordinate choice on the derivation.
  • Participants clarify the necessity of considering angular dependencies in spherical coordinates, correcting misunderstandings about the application of the Laplacian operator.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need for careful application of the Laplacian operator in different coordinate systems, but there remains some uncertainty regarding the specific terms that should appear in the derived expressions. The discussion reflects a mix of clarification and ongoing confusion about the mathematical steps involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the expressions discussed are independent of the choice of coordinates, but emphasize the importance of applying the correct form of the Laplacian based on the coordinate system used. There are unresolved issues regarding the treatment of angular dependencies in the spherical coordinate system.

curious_mind
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I am not able to understand the calculation step in deriving WKB approximation given in Quantum Mechanics book of Zettili. It is more related to Vector Calculus though.
In Zettili book, it is given that ## \nabla^2 \psi \left( \vec{r} \right) + \dfrac{1}{\hbar ^2} p^2 \left( \vec{r} \right) \psi ( \vec{r} ) =0 ## where ## \hbar## is very small and ##p## is classical momentum.
Now they assumed the ansatz that ## \psi ( \vec{r} ) = A ( \vec{r} ) e^{i S( \vec{r} ) / \hbar} ## , where ##A(\vec{r})## is amplitude and ##S(\vec{r})## is phase. Now they write that substituting this ansatz into the above semiclassical Schrödinger equation, it is obtained :
## A \left [ \dfrac{\hbar^2}{A} \nabla^2 A - ( \vec{\nabla} S )^2 + p^2(\vec{r}) \right] + i \hbar \left[ 2 \left( \vec{\nabla} A \right) \cdot \left( \vec{\nabla} S \right) + A \nabla^2 S \right] =0 ##.

I am not exactly how I this expression can be obtained. I have tried to use laplacian operator property given in https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_calculus_identities

$$ \nabla^2 (fg) = f \nabla^2 g + g \nabla^2 f + 2 \nabla f ~~ \nabla g $$.

But still I am not able to arrive at that expression given. Can anyone tell me about laplacian operator's chain rule. I think it can be applicable here for getting laplacian of term ## e^{i S( \vec{r} ) / \hbar} ## .Or is there any other way around. Using simple formula for laplacian in spherical coordinates is also giving me cumbersome expressions, not equal to this one. Where am I mistaken ?
Any help or hint would be much appreciated.
 
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Chain rules for vector derivative operators are most easily derived using cartesian coordinates:<br /> \begin{split}<br /> \nabla^2g(f) &amp;= \frac{\partial^2}{\partial x_i\,\partial x_i}g(f) = \frac{\partial}{\partial x_i}\left(g&#039;(f)\frac{\partial f}{\partial x_i}\right)\\<br /> &amp;= g&#039;&#039;(f) \frac{\partial f}{\partial x_i}\frac{\partial f}{\partial x_i} + g&#039;(f)\frac{\partial^2 f}{\partial x_i\,\partial x_i} \\<br /> &amp;= g&#039;&#039;(f)\nabla f \cdot \nabla f + g&#039;(f)\nabla^2 f.<br /> \end{split}<br />
 
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Ok thanks, using your expression - ## \nabla^2 (e^{i S(\vec{r}) / \hbar}) ## simplifies into the form that is derived into the book. But if I apply spherical laplacian on ## \nabla^2 (e^{i S(\vec{r}) / \hbar}) ##, I am getting one additional term involving ## \nabla S## which is not supposed to be obtained. But using the chain rule you obtained I am able to get that's why I want to know what is my exact mistake.

Is the expression I wrote from wikipedia is also for cartesian coordinates ? Because if I use that and then applying spherical laplacian on - ## \nabla^2 (e^{i S(\vec{r}) / \hbar}) ## I am not getting the expression derived in the book.

These are some obvious mistakes from my side but I am quite weak at math sometimes :) .
 
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These expressions are written in manifestly covariant form and thus are independent of the choice of coordinates. You only have to be careful when applying ##\Delta## to a vector. There you should use Cartesian components or use the mainfestly covariant definition
$$\Delta \vec{A}=\vec{\nabla} (\vec{\nabla} \cdot \vec{A})-\vec{\nabla} \times (\vec{\nabla} \times \vec{A}),$$
but this special case isn't needed for your calculation, because you deal with the Laplacian applied to a scalar field.

Which formula for the Laplacian in spherical coordinates have you used?
 
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## \nabla^2 f = \dfrac{1}{r^2} \dfrac{\partial }{\partial r} \left ( r^2 \dfrac{\partial f}{\partial r} \right ) + \dfrac{1}{r \sin \theta} \dfrac{\partial }{\partial \theta} \left ( \sin \theta \dfrac{\partial f}{\partial \theta} \right ) + \dfrac{1}{r^2 \sin^2 \theta} \dfrac{ \partial^2 f} { \partial \phi^2} ##

Here, ##r^2## need to be multiplied while taking partial derivative with respect to r. There is no ## \theta ## and ## \phi ## dependence, so those terms will be 0.
 
Why shouldn't there be ##\theta## and ##\phi## dependence in your problem?
 
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Oh okay, it is written ## \vec{r} ##, so it would mean ## (r, \theta, \phi) ## ? So yes, there will be. I had misunderstood it completely. Thanks for pointing it out, otherwise there would be no point of using Laplacian form of ## \nabla^2 ##.

The mistake I was making also I understood. I used spherical coordinates to differentiate, and then after converting back into vector calculus form I was using cartesian one. That is why confusion arised.

Like, I was taking ## \dfrac{1}{r^2} \dfrac{\partial^2 S}{\partial r^2} ## as ## \nabla^2 S ## but I can't do that in spherical, I have to write ## \dfrac{1}{r^2} \dfrac{ \partial }{\partial r} \left( r^2 S \right )## as ## \nabla^2 S ##. So this was main mistake. And it was when I wrongly neglected dependence of ##\theta## and ##\phi##. But now confusion is cleared. Thanks.

Actually whole calculation was lengthy that's why I did not post here, but it seems I should have written whole things. :)
 
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