Dipole excitation response function - physical interpretation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the physical interpretation of the dipole operator in the context of photon scattering on a nucleus, particularly focusing on the response function derived from matrix elements of nucleus currents. Participants explore the implications of the dipole operator acting between initial and final states and its role in understanding the system's response to perturbations induced by photon fields.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant computes a response function for photon scattering, noting that it is proportional to the matrix elements of nucleus currents and seeks to understand the physical interpretation of the dipole operator in this context.
  • Another participant states that transitions can occur via the dipole operator, mentioning that sometimes these transitions are forbidden and higher-order transitions, such as quadrupole transitions, may occur instead.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the meaning of a transition "taking place via dipole operator acting between the states," seeking clarification on the conceptual understanding of this process.
  • Further elaboration is provided on the dipole approximation and its role in evaluating transition rates, including references to the quantum theory of radiation and the use of matrix elements in the context of interactions between states.
  • Discussion includes mention of selection rules for dipole transitions, indicating that these can be derived from group theory and the Wigner-Eckart theorem, which relates to the non-vanishing Clebsch-Gordan coefficients.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the physical interpretation of the dipole operator and its implications for transitions. There is no consensus on the conceptual clarity of these ideas, and some participants are seeking further clarification.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of higher-order calculations and the dependence on specific approximations, such as the dipole approximation, which may not be universally applicable. The discussion also touches on the limitations of current explanations and the need for deeper insights into the underlying physics.

crock88
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Hi everyone, I'm a new member but it's not the first time I look at the forum.
Well, I don't know if this is the right section to post my question. I think it is related to quantum mechanics interpretation too. Anyway, let's have a look at my problem.

I've computed cross section for photon scattering on a nucleus. What I get is a kinematic factor (not really interesting) and a dynamic part which is substantially what I call response function. This response function is proportional to matrix elements of nucleus currents between initial and final states. Then I performed a multipolar expansion and until now it's all ok.
Consider in particular the dipolar term, i.e.

[itex]R(\omega)\propto<\psi_f|\hat{D}|\psi_i>[/itex]

where we have the expectation value of the dipole operator between an initial and final state.
Now, what is the physical interpretation of the dipole operator acting between these two states?
This response function describes just how the system responds to a perturbation induced by the photon field. So computing it I would say that we are going to see how the system changes when I perturb it with a photon of given energy [itex]\omega[\itex]. But where the dipole operator enters in this? I would say the same if instead of the dipole operator i would have the quadrupole operator.<br /> <br /> What does the dipole operator do? I start with an initial wavefunction, I act on it with the dipole operator and then i want to see the overlap of this state with a final one. How is the wavefunction modified? Is it really modified? Can I still use a wavefunction interpretation? <br /> <br /> P.S. I've seen already a similar discussion on this forum but the answers did not convinced me.<br /> <br /> Thanx for the attention![/itex]
 
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A transition can take place via dipole operator acting between the states.Sometimes dipole transitions are forbidden then it take place via higher order like quadrupole transitions.
 
andrien said:
A transition can take place via dipole operator acting between the states.Sometimes dipole transitions are forbidden then it take place via higher order like quadrupole transitions.

I know this, but I don't "see" it. What does "take place via dipole operator acting between the states" mean? I know this is the way one usually says and then there are selection rules and so as you say some transitions are forbidden.
 
crock88 said:
I know this, but I don't "see" it. What does "take place via dipole operator acting between the states" mean? I know this is the way one usually says and then there are selection rules and so as you say some transitions are forbidden.
Introduction of dipole operator takes place while you evaluate the transition rate with eikx factor set equal to 1.It belongs to quantum theory of radiation where when you evaluate the matrix element between two states by taking the interaction hamiltonian b/w the two states where interaction contains part(with one photon transition only) the term like A.p.You put the plane wave form for A(vector potential) which yields term like <B|p.εα e-ikx|A> for the transition.we utilise a series expansion for exponential term,with the approximation e-ikx=1 known as dipole approximation because in this case you have
<B|p.εα|A> or <B|p|A>.εα.Now we have [p2,x]=-2ih-p,which applied to <B|p|A> gives<B|[H0,x](im/h-)|A>=EB-EA/h-(imxBA).so you can see that the matrix element is reduced to finding it for x.Higher order calculations are more complicated say for quadrupole you get a second rank traceless tensor with xixjij/3(|x|2) taken.The selection rules for dipole transitions can be inferred using only group theory.However all selection rules can be obtained from wigner eckart theorem which should lead to non vanishing clebsch gordon coefficient coefficient gives the selection rules for dipole,quadrupole,M1 transition etc.For more higher orders it is rather beneficial to invoke vector spherical harmonics.
 

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