Dirac on Spreading Wave Packets

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the behavior of photon wave packets, particularly regarding their spreading in space over time. Participants explore the implications of Dirac's statements in "The Principles of Quantum Mechanics" and the relationship between wave packets and the principles of quantum mechanics, including the Heisenberg uncertainty principle.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that wave packets typically spread out, except under certain conditions, and questions whether photon wave packets disperse based on Dirac's text.
  • Another participant asserts that photon wave packets do not spread in free space due to the dispersion relation for massless particles, referencing classical electromagnetism.
  • A different viewpoint claims that photon wave packets do spread out, using diffraction as an example to support this assertion.
  • Another participant clarifies that while the wave packet represents the probability of finding a photon at a position, it does spread out over time, aligning with Dirac's later comments on the topic.
  • A participant references a Wikipedia article as a useful resource on the subject, indicating that it provides good information regarding wave packets.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether photon wave packets spread. Some argue that they do not spread in free space, while others contend that they do spread, particularly in terms of probability representation. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference Dirac's conditions and the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, indicating that there may be limitations in understanding the implications of these concepts on wave packet behavior. The discussion also highlights the dependence on definitions of spreading and the context in which wave packets are considered.

anorlunda
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My layman's intuition tells me that wave packets normally spread out in space and disperse, except in special circumstances. Photons don't behave like that.

In The Principles of Quantum Mechanics, pp 124-125, Dirac discusses the equations of motions of a photon wave packet. He says:

Dirac said:
For a given S, let us take a solution of (42) for which at some definite time, the density A^{2} vanishes everywhere outside a certain small region

Thus Dirac doesn't show that the packets don't disperse, he imposes it as a condition on the solution. I presume that the thing he left unsaid was "because that agrees with experiment," which is a compelling argument.

However, on the very next page he seems to waffle:

Dirac said:
By a more accurate solution of the wave equation one can show that the accuracy with which the coordinates and momenta simultaneously have numerical values cannot remain permanently as favourable as the limit allowed by Heisenberg's principle of uncertianty, equation (56) of 24, but if it is initially so it will become less favourable, the wave packet undergoing a spreading. [see Kennary, Z.f. Physik, 44(1927), 344; Darwin, Proc. Roy. Soc. A. 117(1927)258]

"the wave packet undergoing a spreading" So what's the deal? Photon wave packets do or do not spread?
 
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For a photon in free space, the wave packet does not spread. This is a consequence of the dispersion relation for a massless particle, ##\omega = ck##, where ##\omega## is the angular frequency and ##k## is the magnitude of the wave number. This is also true in classical EM: wave packets propagate without changing shape.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispersion_relation
 
Sure they do, they spread out lots. Think of diffraction.
 
anorlunda said:
My layman's intuition tells me that wave packets normally spread out in space and disperse, except in special circumstances

Right.

anorlunda said:
Photons don't behave like that.

For photons, the associated wave packet represents something like the *probability* to find the photon at a given position. This wave packet of probability does spread out. But the photon is only ever detected at a single position.

anorlunda said:
Thus Dirac doesn't show that the packets don't disperse, he imposes it as a condition on the solution.

It sounds like Dirac is setting up initial conditions at t=0. He is not claiming that the wave packet doesn't disperse as you let time run forward. Indeed, in the next quote you give he discusses the fact that the wave packet spreads out as t increases.
 

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