Dirac Relativistic Wave Equation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the negative energy solutions of Dirac's Relativistic Wave equation and their implications, particularly in the context of pair production and energy conservation. Participants explore theoretical interpretations, the role of angular momentum in particle creation, and the conceptual challenges posed by these topics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why the negative energy solutions of the Dirac equation were seemingly ignored in historical contexts, particularly regarding energy conservation in pair production.
  • Others argue that Dirac did not ignore these solutions but rather incorporated them into his framework, predicting the existence of positrons through the concept of "holes" in negative energy states.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the neglect of spin angular momentum contributions in energy equations during pair production, suggesting it is a significant oversight.
  • Another participant humorously suggests a conspiracy behind the perceived neglect of certain contributions in physics.
  • One participant introduces the idea that negative energy solutions can be interpreted through time reversal, as discussed by Feynman, linking it to antiparticles and questioning the implications for energy as a scalar quantity.
  • A later reply challenges the interpretation of energy reversal with negative time, raising concerns about its compatibility with the second law of thermodynamics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the treatment of negative energy solutions and the role of angular momentum in pair production. There is no consensus on these issues, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the implications of negative energy solutions and the treatment of angular momentum in energy conservation, suggesting a need for further clarification and exploration of these concepts.

John Rampton
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I would like people's opinions on why the negative energy solutions of Dirac's Relativistic Wave equation were simply ignored in 1934 to make things fit. Another related question is with the energy conservation laws as they stand. Why in pair production from a photon at 1.022MeV forming a positron and electron each of 0.511MeV does the angular momentum component of each created particle (which also has an energy contribution) simply get ignored to make things fit energy conservation
 
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I wouldn't say that the negative energy solutions of the Dirac equation were ignored. Dirac took those solutions pretty seriously, and used them to predict the existence of a positron. Originally, Dirac's interpretation involved the assumption that what we call "vacuum" is actually filled with negative-energy electrons (that is, he assumed that all negative-energy states were filled). In his interpretation, a high-energy photon of energy 2 m_e c^2 (m_e is the mass of an electron) can cause an negative-energy electron with energy -m_e c^2 to become a positive-energy electron with energy +m_e c^2. This would produce two things: a "hole" in the negative energy states, and a positive-energy electron. Dirac argued that a "hole" in the negative-energy states would look like a positively charged particle, the positron. So raising the energy of the negative-energy electron would appear to produce an electron/positron pair.

This framework was enormously successful, although clunky, with its unobservable "sea" of negative-energy electrons. But it led to a more elegant field-theoretic view that eventually became QED (quantum electrodynamics).

Dirac's idea of "holes" in an otherwise filled set of energy states appearing like positively charged particles is still used in solid-state physics, where the filled states form the "Fermi sea", rather than the vacuum.
 
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I don't understand why the spin angular momentum component and contribution to energy equation, in pairs of particles created in pair production, seem to be conveniently ignored
 
John Rampton said:
I don't understand why the spin angular momentum component and contribution to energy equation, in pairs of particles created in pair production, seem to be conveniently ignored

It's obviously a conspiracy by the military/industrial/physics complex. :wink:

What do you mean? The Dirac equation is a theory (or part of Dirac's theory of electrons). A theory is a guess about the way things work. It's an educated guess, and a guess that is empirically testable. But it's a guess. It could be proved wrong. Dirac hypothesized that the total energy E of a free electron with wave function \psi is given by:

E \psi = (-i \hbar \nabla \cdot \alpha + \beta m c^2) \psi

There is no specific term corresponding to the energy due to spin angular momentum, but there is no experimental suggestion that such a term is needed. Because every electron has the same magnitude for spin angular momentum, such a term would make a constant difference, and would be unobservable.
 
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I only just started reading about QFT and partially the Dirac Equation, but I thought that in a wave solution of the Klein Gordon (which is also a solution of Dirac Eq.), in the complex exponential of the Lorentz invariant quantity pμxμ, the negative energy was accounted for by Feynman by reversing the direction of time such that (-E)(-t) = Et and it corresponded to an antiparticle. When time is reversed the spin and all other momenta change sign, right?
 
Thanks for your replies but I don't agree or else there are other things to be answered here.

If you say -E(-t) = E(t) then how can this be. Energy is a scalar quantity so should have no direction which would seem to be implicit with the equation quoted, Energy reverses with negative time

Also this may contravene the 2nd law of thermodynamics

Replies appreciated I know this is a difficult concept
 

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