Dirac's derivation of the action/Lagrangian for a free particle

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around Dirac's derivation of the action and Lagrangian for a free particle, specifically in the context of special relativity. Participants explore the implications of Dirac's statements and the assumptions underlying the derivation, questioning the universality of the relationship between the action and Lagrangian.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the action for a free particle and derives the Lagrangian, referencing Dirac's work and the relationship to the 4-momentum.
  • Another participant notes that the assumption of flat spacetime in special relativity supports Dirac's claim but questions the specific wording regarding the necessity of special relativity for the Lagrangian form.
  • Some participants express confusion about Dirac's statement regarding the Lagrangian being the time derivative of the action, suggesting it may not be universally applicable.
  • Another participant proposes that Dirac might be considering cases such as Lagrangian densities in field theories or affine reparametrization of time, which could complicate the generality of the action-Lagrangian relationship.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the relevance of special relativity to Dirac's derivation but express differing interpretations of his wording and the implications for the universality of the action-Lagrangian relationship. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the depth of Dirac's comment and its implications.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the assumptions behind Dirac's statements, particularly regarding the applicability of the action-Lagrangian relationship in different contexts, such as field theories and reparametrization.

Kostik
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TL;DR
The action for a free particle is ##I=-m\int{ds}##, hence the Lagrangian is ##L=-m(ds/dt)=-m/\gamma=-m\sqrt{1-v^2}##. Dirac infers this by checking that it gives the correct momentum ##p^k = \gamma mv^k## -- "in the case of special relativity". Why?
The action for a free particle is $$I=-m\int{ds} = \int \left(-m\frac{ds}{dt}\right) dt \quad\quad\quad(*)$$ hence the Lagrangian is $$L=-m\frac{ds}{dt}=-\frac{m}{\gamma}=-m\sqrt{1-v^2} .$$ Dirac ("General Theory of Relativity", p. 52) infers this by checking that it gives the correct spatial components of the 4-momentum: $$p^k = \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{x}^k} = \gamma m \frac{d x^k}{dt} .$$ But Dirac prefaces this by saying "We see the need [in the action] for the coefficient ##-m## by taking the case of special relativity, for which the Lagrangian would be the time derivative of ##(*)##."

Why does he say "by taking the case of special relativity"? Isn't it always true that $$\frac{\partial}{\partial t}\int{L}\,dt = L ?$$
 
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I can see that the assumption $$ds^2=\eta_{\mu\nu}dx^\mu dx^\nu = dt^2 - dx^2 - dy^2 - dz^2$$ assumes flat spacetime (special relativity). Therefore, I think Dirac is correct that his confirmation works in the case of special relativity. But I still don't see why he says "by taking the case of special relativity, for which the Lagrangian would be the time derivative of ##(∗)##."
 
Kostik said:
I can see that the assumption $$ds^2=\eta_{\mu\nu}dx^\mu dx^\nu = dt^2 - dx^2 - dy^2 - dz^2$$ assumes flat spacetime (special relativity). Therefore, I think Dirac is correct that his confirmation works in the case of special relativity. But I still don't see why he says "by taking the case of special relativity, for which the Lagrangian would be the time derivative of ##(∗)##."
As noted in the original post, Dirac's "General Theory of Relativity", p. 52.
 
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Kostik said:
As noted in the original post, Dirac's "General Theory of Relativity", p. 52.
I don't think the comment is probably that deep. As you say that is generally the case that the action is of the form of ##A = \int L dt##. However, I don't think it's universal. Two cases that come to mind are maybe he was thinking of the field case where one has Lagrangian Densities like the Einstein Hilbert Action. Or alternatively in some cases one can choose an affine reparametrization of time.
 

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