Direct Sum/Product of Groups Clarification?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter shallumstuart
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Groups
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the direct sum and product of groups, specifically focusing on the group (Z4 x Z2, +mod2). Participants explore the implications of the binary operation defined for this group and how to correctly perform element addition within it.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the addition of elements in (Z4 x Z2, +mod2), proposing two different methods of addition and seeking clarification on which is correct.
  • Another participant explains that the direct product involves componentwise addition using the respective operations of the groups, asserting that the correct operation is to add the first components in mod 4 and the second components in mod 2.
  • A later reply expresses confusion about the meaning of the +mod2 notation, questioning how it applies to the componentwise addition process.
  • One participant ultimately doubts the validity of the notation (Z4 x Z2, +mod2), suggesting it may not make sense.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the interpretation of the operation +mod2 in the context of (Z4 x Z2). There are competing views on how the addition should be understood and applied.

Contextual Notes

There is uncertainty regarding the implications of the notation +mod2 and how it interacts with the operations defined for the individual groups. The discussion does not resolve these ambiguities.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying group theory, particularly in understanding direct sums and products of groups and the nuances of binary operations within these structures.

shallumstuart
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
I have a pretty basic question about direct sum/product of groups.

Say you were given the group (Z4 x Z2, +mod2). Now I know that Z4 x Z2 is given by { (0,0), (0,1), (1,0), (1,1), (2,0), (2,1), (3,0), (3,1) }. So now if you were going to add together two of the elements using the binary operation +mod2, e.g. doing (1,1) +mod2 (2,1). Does this give you:

(1,1) +mod2 (2,1) = (1+2,1+1) = (3,2) = (1,0)?
I'm pretty sure that this is correct, but I thought another possibility might have been that you add the first two elements in mod4 and the second two in mod 2

e.g. (1,1) + (2,1) = (3,2) = (3,0).

Help clarifying would be super.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
The definition of the direct product of two groups G and H is that you multiply (or add in the abelian case) componentwise using the operation in the given component. So in Z4 x Z2 the operation is the second one you did, e.g. (1,1) + (2,1) = (3,0). Of course to get the first thing you had (e.g. (1,1) + (2,1) = (1,0)) you could redefine the operation in Z4 to be addition mod 4, but then you would really have Z2 (so the direct product would be Z2 x Z2). For example with this operation on Z4 we are forced for 3 and 1 to be the same element since 3 - 1 = 2 = 0.
 
thanks that's helpful.

although i still don't quite get the meaning of the +mod2 part. When the group is defined as (Z4 x Z2, +mod2), doesn't the +mod2 tell you the binary operation by which you combine elements of the set? if that's the case, when you add componentwise how come you are adding the first two together in mod4 but the second two in mod2?
 
Last edited:
never mind, i don't actually think it makes any sense to say (Z4 x Z2, +mod2)
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
1K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
5K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
4K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
13K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
6K