Discover the Relationship Between CMB's Temperature and Redshift z in Cosmology

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the cosmic microwave background (CMB) temperature and redshift (z) in cosmology. Participants explore theoretical aspects, mathematical relationships, and educational resources related to this topic.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the CMB temperature is inversely proportional to the universe's scale length, suggesting a relationship between CMB temperature and redshift.
  • One participant mentions a specific function, T = 2.73 K * (1 + z), indicating that the CMB temperature can be expressed in terms of redshift.
  • Another participant notes that the ratio of scale lengths (R2/R1) is equal to (1 + z), which leads to a consideration of whether temperature is proportional to the scale length.
  • Several participants discuss the need for clarity regarding the level of detail required for understanding the CMB in the context of an astronomy competition.
  • There are suggestions for educational resources, including a recommendation for a book on mathematical cosmology, though no consensus on its suitability is reached.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the appropriate level of detail for explanations, considering the background knowledge of the original poster.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the existence of a relationship between CMB temperature and redshift, but multiple competing views and uncertainties about the specifics of this relationship remain. The discussion about educational resources also reflects differing opinions on what is appropriate for the original poster's level of understanding.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the relationship between CMB temperature and redshift, as well as the dependence on definitions of terms like "mastery" in the context of physics and mathematics.

Li Jiaxuan
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I have a question about cosmos microwave background.
Can we get a relationship between CMB's temperature and redshift z??
THX!
 
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Welcome to PF;
iirc that's one of the ways the Universe gets dated.
As the universe expands, the CMB photons are redshifted, making the radiation's temperature inversely proportional to a parameter called the universe's scale length. The temperature Tr of the CMB as a function of redshift, z, can be shown to be proportional to the temperature of the CMB as observed in the present day (2.725 K or 0.235 meV)...
--- Noterdaeme, P.; Petitjean, P.; Srianand, R.; Ledoux, C.; López, S. (February 2011). "The evolution of the cosmic microwave background temperature. Measurements of TCMB at high redshift from carbon monoxide excitation". Astronomy and Astrophysics 526: L7. arXiv:1012.3164. Bibcode:2011A&A...526L...7N. doi:10.1051/0004-6361/201016140.​
 
Simon Bridge said:
Welcome to PF;
iirc that's one of the ways the Universe gets dated.
As the universe expands, the CMB photons are redshifted, making the radiation's temperature inversely proportional to a parameter called the universe's scale length. The temperature Tr of the CMB as a function of redshift, z, can be shown to be proportional to the temperature of the CMB as observed in the present day (2.725 K or 0.235 meV)...
--- Noterdaeme, P.; Petitjean, P.; Srianand, R.; Ledoux, C.; López, S. (February 2011). "The evolution of the cosmic microwave background temperature. Measurements of TCMB at high redshift from carbon monoxide excitation". Astronomy and Astrophysics 526: L7. arXiv:1012.3164. Bibcode:2011A&A...526L...7N. doi:10.1051/0004-6361/201016140.​

Thanks for your answer. I find a function on the internet: T=2.73k*(1+z),and 2.73k is the current temperature of CMB. Hence T/Tnow=1+z.
I know that R2/R1=1+z , R is the universe scale length. And can we get that T~R?
Thank you!
(P.s. Can you introduce a book to me?)
 
Very roughly - and most books giving a mathematical treatment of cosmology will have the relations you are after.
I've had: Introduction to mathematical cosmology by J Islam recommended to me - I have only skimmed the first chapter so I cannot comment on how good it is.
It doesn't seem to be terrible and I see it is on Cambridge Universities text list FWIW.
 
Li Jiaxuan, welcome to Physics Forums!

At what level would you like your questions answered? What is your background in physics and mathematics?
 
George Jones said:
Li Jiaxuan, welcome to Physics Forums!

At what level would you like your questions answered? What is your background in physics and mathematics?

I am a senior student and I want to take part in an astronomy competition in our city. I can master calculus and mechanics. I want a detail answer about CMB.
Thx!
 
That's impressive - it usually takes people another 4-6years of college study to "master" calculus or mechanics ;)
The problem then is to figure out what level of detail the competition would like to see.
Have a skim of that link I gave you and see how much you follow.
You may need a more elementary work.
 
Simon Bridge said:
That's impressive - it usually takes people another 4-6years of college study to "master" calculus or mechanics ;)
The problem then is to figure out what level of detail the competition would like to see.
Have a skim of that link I gave you and see how much you follow.
You may need a more elementary work.

Well, I mean I can use a little calculus to solve problems. English is not my native language so my English is poor. I regard "master" as "use".(I often fail in English,forgive me)
 
Li Jiaxuan said:
I have a question about cosmos microwave background.
Can we get a relationship between CMB's temperature and redshift z??
THX!

The CMB temperature is inversely proportional to the scale factor so you can use that to get a relationship between the CMB temperature and redshift.
 
  • #10
Actually your English is better than most native speakers.
Master, as a verb related to a subject matter, means: to acquire complete knowledge or skill in (a subject, technique, or art).

i.e. someone who can ride a little is not a master of horsemanship.
A common use would be "chess is easy to learn and difficult to master."

Academically, "a Master" is someone with at least the post-graduate University degree "Master of" <subject>.

Have you had a look at that book yet?
It's tricky to get references at a lower level that also have the maths you want.
 

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