Discrete modes of vibration for sonometers

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of discrete modes of vibration in sonometers, focusing on the nature of standing waves and the conditions necessary for their formation. Participants explore the relationship between the physical properties of the wire, such as length, tension, and mass per unit length, and how these factors influence the resonant frequencies of the system.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the requirement of nodes for standing waves and the implications of wire length on permissible wavelengths. Questions arise regarding the effects of tension and mass on wave speed and frequency. The impact of placing a finger on the wire and its effect on the effective length and standing wave formation is also examined.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with various interpretations being explored. Some participants provide insights into the mechanics of wave propagation in strings, while others question the assumptions regarding node placement and the nature of non-discrete vibrations. There is no explicit consensus on all points, but several productive lines of inquiry are being pursued.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of resonant frequency determination and the potential for different standing wave configurations in sonometers. The discussion also highlights the distinction between recognized modes and other possible vibrations that may not conform to the typical definitions.

T7
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Hi,

I have a few questions about Sonometers which I've attempted to think through - though I may be missing something. Perhaps someone can fill in any gaps for me?

If I was to be asked why only 'discrete modes' of vibration can exist for a sonometer, is it enough merely to talk about the fact that this involves standing waves, and for a standing wave you must have "nodes" at either end, and that this is only possible for wavelengths that satisfy 2L/n (where n is an integer), and consequently only possible for frequencies that satisfy vn/2L?

As I understand it, what determines the wavelengths is simply the length of the wire we provide. The frequency, on the other hand, is also a function of the velocity of the wave, and this in turn is dependent on the tension of the wire and its mass per unit length. [I believe waves travel faster on a tighter string (but why?), and slower on a more massive string (which seems fairly obvious).] So finding the 'resonant frequency' is a bit more complicated, since it isn't just dependent on the wavelengths that the wire will permit, is it?

Another question I have is this: if I was to place my finger lightly in the middle of the wire, would I be, in effect, altering the length of the wire, or merely encouraging a standing wave with a node in that position (eg. the second harmonic) to form?
 
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Only discrete modes can exist because of the standing wave pattern that quickly picks up once a vibration occurs. Any other frequency will be quick to die out. In practice, some frequencies close to these permitted modes will also exist.

Waves travel faster in a string with higher tension because the solution to the string equation says so. In a more layman explanation, you can see that a tighter string the higher the force between adjacent atoms, thus when one moves, it affects the ones beside it with greater influence, leading to what appears to be faster wave motion. As for massive (as in high linear density), again the string equation solution says so, but you can think of it as having more inertia.

If you place your finger in the middle of the wire, you will be altering the nature of the wire, that is the effective length. Different lengths support different modes.
 
mezarashi said:
Only discrete modes can exist because of the standing wave pattern that quickly picks up once a vibration occurs. Any other frequency will be quick to die out. In practice, some frequencies close to these permitted modes will also exist.

Waves travel faster in a string with higher tension because the solution to the string equation says so. In a more layman explanation, you can see that a tighter string the higher the force between adjacent atoms, thus when one moves, it affects the ones beside it with greater influence, leading to what appears to be faster wave motion. As for massive (as in high linear density), again the string equation solution says so, but you can think of it as having more inertia.

If you place your finger in the middle of the wire, you will be altering the nature of the wire, that is the effective length. Different lengths support different modes.

Thanks mezarashi.
 
tighter wire has a greater (transverse Force component) restoring force
when displaced from equilibrium (straight) position.

T7 said:
if I was to place my finger lightly in the middle of the wire, would I be, in effect, altering the length of the wire, or merely encouraging a standing wave with a node in that position
Gently touching the middle of the string with a finger will DIScourage
standing waves that have displacement there.

T7 said:
this involves standing waves, and for a standing wave you must have "nodes" at either end
Careful - some sonometers have standing waves with node on one end, antinode on the other. Strings can be set up to have anti-nodes at BOTH ends.
T7 said:
only 'discrete modes' of vibration can exist for a sonometer
Finally, I'd say that even non-discrete vibrations CAN exist, but will not be recognized as "modes" - and are difficult to recognize at later times, since (by definition) they do not look the same on each reflection.
 

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