Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

Medical Disorganized Cancer - the first form of reproductive life?

  1. Apr 22, 2006 #1
    I think the major obstacle to chemical evolution is to explain controlled cell growth. I do not know of a reason why, at the early stages of the Earth's history, controlled cell growth should replace uncontrolled cell growth (or dominate before it even uncontrolled cell growth even came to be), because exploding and uncontrolled cell growth of a particular species could result be a Darwinian advantage rather a disadvantage. A controlled cell growth of a multicelluar organism would be disrupted after eating cancer cells for breakfast (unless if it had a cure for cancer built in), thus it is unlikely that a controlled cell growth organism could kill a uncontrolled cell growth organism by eating it, nor would it automatically do so. Cancer requires an energy source like any other "life". It acquires growth through sugar and fat. Once you got those and some other essentials such as proteins, you can support the growth of cancer. Cancer is not inhibited by a cell clock, which in itself requires perhaps more resources to implement or perhaps a reduced genetic code, part of which is implemented for the cell cycle. Granted, it couldn't become intelligent life if it is disorganized cancer, but answer me this, how exactly would normal growth organisms replace cancer-like organisms?

    Reasons why cancer-like organisms possess a Darwinian advantage:

    http://webpages.marshall.edu/~adkinsda/b120ch11.htm

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/09/030908071540.htm
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2006
  2. jcsd
  3. Apr 28, 2006 #2
    Cancer has a short life because it depends on a normal growth organism as a host. This is how it gets fed. It needs the normal structure to survive.

    Cancer fails as a survivor because it kills its host, in many instances. With out the host, as to date, it is a helpless quivering blob of yuck.

    Often tumours attempt to mimic their organized host by producing partial organs, teeth and hair... even lips... but, these manifestations of its mutated dna do not function well enough to feed the cancer.

    Moreover, cancer is only a mutation of a normal cell in the first place. The mutation is 99 percent caused by abrasion... according to one Oncologist, Dr. Moss.

    Abrasion and irritations lead to cell death. Each time the cell is replaced the chances of a mutation are higher. By the 8th replacement cycle, there is a very high chance for a mutation to be a part of that line of cells. Its all because of accelerated and repeated abrasions and/or irritations (eg: every carcinogen)

    For instance. Sun Burn. Skin is peeled off. New skin is need to replace it. Each time this happens the chances of a mutation appearing in one new cell get higher.

    Example: each time a harmful chemical, say leaching from a plastic or metal clasp on a bra, gets under the skin it irritates the cells... probably in the lymph nodes of the area (armpits etc..) and the lymph node structure has to replace dieing cells... everytime this happens... again... the odds of a mutation in the genes of one cell are greater and greater.

     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2006
  4. May 3, 2006 #3
    In any event, I submit my opinion with regard to your question "Disorganized Cancer - the first form of reproductive life?" and say that this is not possible for the reasons stated above and below.

    The metastasis of a cancer cell is not considered to be the reproduction of an organism. It is more a form of mitosis.

    See: http://www.cellsalive.com/mitosis.htm

    Reproductive cells and the act of reproduction is as follows:

    Here we witness a preparation to inter-exchange genetic materials from one organism to another. This is normally called reproduction.

    Cancer isn't organized enough to reproduce. It only performs an escalating and exponential series of divisions, as seen in mitosis, only to the extreme. The reason it randomly produces the natural features of its "host" is because it uses its DNA in its metastatic process. And sometimes the genes that express the physical attributes of the "host" are activated during the growth of a carcinoma.
     
  5. May 3, 2006 #4
    The question the first person seems to be asking is not about cancer in the human body but more so a cancer-like organism that expands at an uncontroled rate. He or she seems to be asking how a population that expands at an uncontroled rate would be more 'fit to survive' than a population of organisms which regulate the number of divisions. He or she is wondering why organisms which regulate their growth would arise at all.
    -scott
     
  6. May 3, 2006 #5
    To answer your question, it seems to me that most early organisms would have no devolped control on their rate of growth. In a limited enviorment this is what I think would happen: the organism population would expand to the point that there would be too many organisms to fill the niche and it would wipe itself out, since it would consume all of the nutrients in the imediate area, thus ending any change for the population to stabalize itself. The only early forms that would survive would be ones that mutated in a way that allowed for reproduction only in the case that there was additional food. Current Bacteria only reproduce when there is a surplus of food, in general.
    -scott
     
  7. May 4, 2006 #6
    Ah, I get it.:redface:

    This is a look at the evolution of organized growth... if my interpretation is correct.

    The premise may be that organized growth evolved out of an unorganized form of growth in organisms where growth, being unchecked, was accelerated had a rate and area of growth checked only by environmental conditions.

    If we were to describe features like unorganized growth and exponential growth as cancer then we would inevitabley have to say that human population growth and its consequences are cancer.

    We cant simply call unorganized growth cancer. When something or some phyllum or some species grows in an unorganized manner it is a sign that it is reproducing via the highly specific and organized function we call meosis. The growth that metastises exhibits is caused by simple division of cells. It is a function that normal cells perform but that a mutation can pirate and monopolize. This is a trait exhibited by the mutation of a once normal, organized cell. The metastases can not occur with out the organized nature of the normal cell and the organized organism.

    So, if we look at the evolution of life we see the tremendous flourishing and seemingly random spread of... say.... algae.
    What we see is a testimony to the tenacious will of each cell to live, reproduce and provide resource for the next generation. The algae is self-sufficent whereas cancer depends on the organized systems of an organism. Somehow the mutation that causes cancer is expressed in this manner.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2006
Know someone interested in this topic? Share this thread via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook

Have something to add?



Similar Discussions: Disorganized Cancer - the first form of reproductive life?
  1. Non atomic life forms (Replies: 5)

Loading...