Do Accelerating Masses Produce Gravitons and Cause Orbit Decay?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of whether accelerating masses produce gravitons and if this leads to energy loss that causes orbital decay. It explores theoretical implications, particularly in the context of gravitational radiation and its effects on orbits, with a focus on both conceptual and technical aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that just as accelerating charged particles emit photons and lose energy, accelerating masses should emit gravitons and lose energy, potentially leading to orbit decay.
  • Another participant confirms that systems like the Earth-Sun emit gravitational radiation, resulting in energy loss, but notes that this effect is extremely small and not noticeable in practical terms.
  • A further contribution provides a rough estimate of the timescale for significant orbital decay due to gravitational radiation, suggesting that for the Earth, it would take on the order of 10^19 years for any appreciable decay to occur.
  • The original poster expresses gratitude for the confirmation of their thinking regarding the topic, indicating a level of agreement with the responses received.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

While there is some agreement on the emission of gravitational radiation and its negligible impact on orbital stability, the discussion includes uncertainty regarding the implications of the quadrupole radiation and the specific conditions under which orbits might decay significantly. No consensus is reached on the broader implications of these ideas.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific calculations and theoretical frameworks, such as the quadrupole radiation concept and estimates based on the Schwarzschild radius, but these calculations are not fully resolved or agreed upon in the discussion.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying gravitational physics, orbital mechanics, or anyone curious about the implications of gravitational radiation in astrophysical systems.

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When a charged particle accelerates it produces photons and loses energy which is part of the reason why an electron cannot "orbit" a nucleus.

I would think that an accelerating mass would likewise produce gravitons and lose energy so that all orbits would eventually decay. Is this correct and orbits just seem stable because the amount of energy in gravitons is so small, or is this incorrect because of the quadrupole thing?

I don't exactly understand the quadrupole idea, so if that is what prevents a circular orbit from losing energy, what kinds of orbits or events will produce gravitons?

-Thanks
Dale
 
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Yes, the Earth-Sun system, for example, emits gravitational radiation and thus loses energy, but this loss is far too small to have any noticeable impact. Just for some scale, Taylor and Hulse observed a period decrease of about 80 millionths of a second per year in their binary pulsar, and the effect in our own solar system would be even smaller. However, I've never actually done an estimate, so perhaps someone else can be more specific.
 
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The characteristic period at which gravitational wave radition will be important is very roughly (R/R_s)^(5/2) [from MTW's gravitation, pg 981 - note that I've taken a few small liberties with the formula by replacing M with R_s to keep the units simple, ommiting a factor of 2 in the process]

Since R_s for the sun is 3 km, if you take (98 million km / 3 km)^(5/2), this means about 10^19 orbits for the Earth, i.e. 10^19 years, give or take a few orders of magnitude, for the Earth's orbit to decay appreciably.
 
Thanks Physics Monkey and Pervect! It's good to know I was thinking right.

-Dale
 

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