Do derivatives introduce loss of solutions?

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    Derivatives Loss
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the validity of using derivatives to determine the existence of real solutions to polynomial equations. Participants explore whether taking derivatives affects the logic of proving the absence of solutions.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes using the second derivative of a polynomial equation to argue that there are no real solutions, questioning if this logic is valid.
  • Another participant presents a counterexample involving a simple equation, suggesting that taking derivatives can lead to contradictions.
  • A third participant clarifies the distinction between equations and functions, pointing out a logical flaw in the initial argument regarding the use of derivatives.
  • A later reply indicates that the initial poster has gained clarity on the topic after the responses.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the appropriateness of using derivatives in this context, with multiple viewpoints and some confusion remaining.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential misunderstandings regarding the application of derivatives to equations versus functions, as well as the implications of taking derivatives on the existence of solutions.

Abraham
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For example, if I want to show that there is no real # solution to

x2 + 24x2 = -1

is it correct to show that

d2/dx2( x4 + 24x2 ) = d2/dx2(-1)

---> 12x2+48 = 0

And since x^2 is >0 or =0, 12x2+48 ---> 0 + 48 [tex]\neq[/tex] 0

Therefore, there is no real number solution to x2 + 24x2 = -1

Is this proper logic? Or does taking the derivatives change the validity(?) of the solution or whatever the proper terminology is?
 
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Consider the equation x=1. Taking derivatives yield 1=0.
 
You are confusing equations with functions. The equation:

x4 + 24x2 + 1 = 0

Asks if there is some point (in this case, a real one) such that the above equality is true, not that it's true for all points.

But when you write:

d2/dx2( x4 + 24x2 + 1) = d2/dx2(0)

You are stating that the second derivative of the function

f(x) = x4 + 24x2 + 1

is identically 0. This is the basic logical flaw in your argument.

(You may answer that you meant to say that they are equal at some point, but the second part of your argument contradicts this.)
 
Ok, I get it now. Thanks for the for the quick replies Landau and JSuarez.
 

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