Do electron density waves accompany EM waves in coaxial cables?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between electron density waves and electromagnetic (EM) waves in coaxial cables, exploring the implications of Maxwell's equations and the behavior of waves in transmission lines. The scope includes theoretical considerations and mathematical reasoning related to wave propagation in dielectric materials.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes splitting Maxwell's equations into transverse and longitudinal components to analyze wave behavior in coaxial cables.
  • Another participant suggests that an electron "wave of compression" travels along with the transverse EM wave, indicating a longitudinal electric field develops across the inductance of the line.
  • A later reply agrees that the wave associated with electron density has similar propagation constants and characteristic impedance as the TEM wave, though it may be of small magnitude in coaxial cables.
  • Some participants note the importance of using the appropriate permittivity and permeability for the material in the coaxial cable, emphasizing that the velocity of the wave must match that of the EM wave.
  • There are corrections regarding the speed of the wave, with participants pointing out that it should be the speed of light in the medium.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the significance and characteristics of electron density waves in relation to EM waves, with no consensus reached on the implications or correctness of the proposed models.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need for careful consideration of material properties and the implications of their mathematical derivations, indicating potential limitations in the assumptions made regarding wave behavior.

Bob44
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Maxwell’s equations imply the following wave equation for the electric field
$$\nabla^2\mathbf{E}-\frac{1}{c^2}\frac{\partial^2\mathbf{E}}{\partial t^2}
= \frac{1}{\varepsilon_0}\nabla\rho+\mu_0\frac{\partial\mathbf J}{\partial t}.\tag{1}$$
I wonder if eqn.##(1)## can be split into the following transverse part
$$\nabla^2\mathbf{E}_T-\frac{1}{c^2}\frac{\partial^2\mathbf{E}_T}{\partial t^2}
= \mu_0\frac{\partial\mathbf{J}_T}{\partial t}\tag{2}$$
and longitudinal part
$$\frac{1}{\varepsilon_0}\nabla\rho+\mu_0\frac{\partial\mathbf{J}_L}{\partial t}=0.\tag{3}$$
Taking the divergence of eqn.##(3)## and substituting in the continuity equation ##\nabla \cdot \mathbf{J}_L=-\partial\rho/\partial t## we obtain a wave equation
$$\nabla^2\rho-\frac{1}{c^2}\frac{\partial^2\rho}{\partial t^2}=0.\tag{4}$$
Do these equations describe how transverse EM waves ##(2)## travel down the dielectric in a coaxial cable accompanied by electron density waves ##(4)## in the conductors?
 
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Typo in line 4. That wave is moving at the speed of light.
 
As far as I can see, I think you do get an electron "wave of compression" travelling along a transmission line in addition to the TEM wave. The longitudinal E-field is developed across the inductance-per-unit-length of the line. This applies to any conductor when the applied voltage varies.
 
DaveE said:
Typo in line 4. That wave is moving at the speed of light.
I guess I should use ##\epsilon##, ##\mu## and ##c## appropriate to the material in the coaxial cable.
 
I think so. I believe the wave has the same propagation constants and Zo as the TEM wave, so you don't notice it. It is of small magnitude in a coaxial cable but is important for widely spaced conductors.
 
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Bob44 said:
I guess I should use ##\epsilon##, ##\mu## and ##c## appropriate to the material in the coaxial cable.
The velocity must match that of the EM wave which is ##\frac{1}{\sqrt{\epsilon \mu}}##. If your derivation doesn't produce that then I think it's wrong.
 

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