Do I stand a chance at becoming a math Ph.D. student?

[vcxp]

I'm interested in the idea of getting a Ph.D. in math. I'm currently pursuing a BS at a mediocre school in Math and Computer Science. My tentative mathematics plan is Calculus I-III, Linear Algebra, Number Theory, Elementary Topology I-II, Elementary Modern Algebra I-II and "Advanced Calculus" I-II. (currently finishing up the calculus sequence; I'm halfway through sophomore year).

I'm really afraid that I'm not going to be competitive enough to enter any sort of decent graduate program; I don't feel that any of the material is challenging in the slightest, and I still don't understand how to study for courses that are this awful (I bombed Calc II because of this). The Calculus sequence is taught out of Stewart, Linear Algebra out of Lay, etc. I don't see how the hell I'm going to compete with people who've studied out of stuff like "Little Rudin" as an undergraduate for any decent graduate program.

The obvious answer is to "study on my own", which I've been doing. But I have this ridiculous feeling that everything important that I'm doing is in spite of my educational institution, not because of it. At what point does it just become discouraging to realize that your school isn't helping you at all? I have no problem with being an autodidact, but sometimes it's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel when all of your classmates are equation-dumping engineers and your teachers are content with assigning "monkey see, monkey do" homework problems. "Alright, I get it! I know how to compute a triple integral, can we learn some theory now? No? Then you're wasting my time."

What should I do? Should I try to get involved in research, keep studying on my own and pray a graduate admissions committee takes pity on me? Should I just finish my Bachelors, give up on academia and relegate math to a personal hobby? I really don't know. I haven't attempted to contact anyone in the math department, in part because I have no idea who to talk to. I have an "advisor" whom I'm pretty sure doesn't exist, and the next best thing from there is to try a professor who likes me, which I guess is what I'll end up doing.

One took a liking to me when I was caught explaining something to a classmate in Calc I, and made sure to ask my TA what my major was/who I was. My TA then told this professor that one of my homework solutions that I spent too much time on was actually a Real Analysis proof (although given the circumstances I think this claim is dubious at best). This professor never followed up, but I have them for a course next semester (a joint CS/Math course), so maybe if I prove myself they'd be willing to help me. Is this sort of thing normal?

As I'm writing this, I'm getting the feeling that this is mostly something that needs to be discussed with a member of my school's faculty. However, I would like to hear some outside opinions, and maybe a few "Been there, done that, turned out okay"-type messages, if they exist. (:

 

[lompocus]

Not having been through college you may feel free to slap me around for this, but can I suggest: transfer next year?

 

[deluks917]

(My post is about physics I couldn't imagine things being that different in Math though you could check the less populated Math GRE forum)

This is a very encouraging thread almost everybody (regardless of their school) who managed a decent GPA and GRE score wound up in a reasonable phd program: http://http://www.physicsgre.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1847" . Not everyone got into Princeton but a suprising number of people did. Relax and focus on doing the best with what's availible to you, try to start doing research with a professor. Take a deep breathe, you are only a sophmore if you work hard it will be alright.

 

[micromass]

Hey vcxp, don't worry about it.

I was in pretty much the same situation as you were and it worked out for me (however, I live in a different country then you, so I don't know your situation). However, it will be necessairy to work a bit in your on time. The best way of doing this is getting 2-3 books of a subject and reading them simultaneously. If you don't know which books are good, you can always ask us! If you've worked through all the books, then I should say you mastered the subject. And when you mastered the subject, nobody can stop you from doing anything.

And something else: rudin sucks. Really, I would never recommend anybody learning the material from rudin. It gives no conceptual explanation at all, and sometimes his proofs are far to ugly.

 

[vcxp]

Not having been through college you may feel free to slap me around for this, but can I suggest: transfer next year?

My GPA is far too low to transfer anywhere decent (it's skating at a 3.0 right now).

 

[vcxp]

(My post is about physics I couldn't imagine things being that different in Math though you could check the less populated Math GRE forum)

This is a very encouraging thread almost everybody (regardless of their school) who managed a decent GPA and GRE score wound up in a reasonable phd program: http://http://www.physicsgre.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1847" . Not everyone got into Princeton but a suprising number of people did. Relax and focus on doing the best with what's availible to you, try to start doing research with a professor. Take a deep breathe, you are only a sophmore if you work hard it will be alright.

FYI, your link is broken.

After reading that thread, I've concluded that if I get my GPA up by doing well in the classes that actually matter, and possibly doing some summer research, that I might stand a fighting chance.

 

[vcxp]

Hey vcxp, don't worry about it.

I was in pretty much the same situation as you were and it worked out for me (however, I live in a different country then you, so I don't know your situation). However, it will be necessairy to work a bit in your on time. The best way of doing this is getting 2-3 books of a subject and reading them simultaneously. If you don't know which books are good, you can always ask us! If you've worked through all the books, then I should say you mastered the subject. And when you mastered the subject, nobody can stop you from doing anything.

And something else: rudin sucks. Really, I would never recommend anybody learning the material from rudin. It gives no conceptual explanation at all, and sometimes his proofs are far to ugly.

I've been working on my own time, and I'm starting to take my self-studying a lot more seriously. I've been following http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~abhishek/chicmath.htm" as a very rough guide for what books to study.

As for Rudin, I've heard both sides of the debate. Ignoring the specifics of that book, my general point was that the books we use here are written for drooling imbeciles. But as you said, there's always self-study.

I was just going to let this thread die, but after a few helpful responses it felt rude not to say something.

 

[chiro]

I'm interested in the idea of getting a Ph.D. in math. I'm currently pursuing a BS at a mediocre school in Math and Computer Science. My tentative mathematics plan is Calculus I-III, Linear Algebra, Number Theory, Elementary Topology I-II, Elementary Modern Algebra I-II and "Advanced Calculus" I-II. (currently finishing up the calculus sequence; I'm halfway through sophomore year).

I'm really afraid that I'm not going to be competitive enough to enter any sort of decent graduate program; I don't feel that any of the material is challenging in the slightest, and I still don't understand how to study for courses that are this awful (I bombed Calc II because of this). The Calculus sequence is taught out of Stewart, Linear Algebra out of Lay, etc. I don't see how the hell I'm going to compete with people who've studied out of stuff like "Little Rudin" as an undergraduate for any decent graduate program.

The obvious answer is to "study on my own", which I've been doing. But I have this ridiculous feeling that everything important that I'm doing is in spite of my educational institution, not because of it. At what point does it just become discouraging to realize that your school isn't helping you at all? I have no problem with being an autodidact, but sometimes it's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel when all of your classmates are equation-dumping engineers and your teachers are content with assigning "monkey see, monkey do" homework problems. "Alright, I get it! I know how to compute a triple integral, can we learn some theory now? No? Then you're wasting my time."

What should I do? Should I try to get involved in research, keep studying on my own and pray a graduate admissions committee takes pity on me? Should I just finish my Bachelors, give up on academia and relegate math to a personal hobby? I really don't know. I haven't attempted to contact anyone in the math department, in part because I have no idea who to talk to. I have an "advisor" whom I'm pretty sure doesn't exist, and the next best thing from there is to try a professor who likes me, which I guess is what I'll end up doing.

One took a liking to me when I was caught explaining something to a classmate in Calc I, and made sure to ask my TA what my major was/who I was. My TA then told this professor that one of my homework solutions that I spent too much time on was actually a Real Analysis proof (although given the circumstances I think this claim is dubious at best). This professor never followed up, but I have them for a course next semester (a joint CS/Math course), so maybe if I prove myself they'd be willing to help me. Is this sort of thing normal?

As I'm writing this, I'm getting the feeling that this is mostly something that needs to be discussed with a member of my school's faculty. However, I would like to hear some outside opinions, and maybe a few "Been there, done that, turned out okay"-type messages, if they exist. (:

Hey there. I'm just curious if you have done any kind of research whether its supervised by someone with experience (like a professor) or whether its unsupervised like say a project or an uncredited inquisition into some particular subject.

The reason I ask is that research is not the same as coursework. Sorry if this sounds condescending (I honestly don't mean it to be) but yeah it takes a certain skill-set and mindset to go well in research considering that there are no answers (or maybe only partial ones) for what you are trying to solve, so stumbling around running into brick walls and feeling somewhat overpowered is a normal experience when doing research.

If you are the type that is used to facing brick walls and deal with that in a positive way and use curiosity and tenacity to your advantage, then I think from those attributes that if you can demonstrate that then you will improve your odds of getting in a research program and seeing it through to your defense of the thesis.

 

[vcxp]

Hey there. I'm just curious if you have done any kind of research whether its supervised by someone with experience (like a professor) or whether its unsupervised like say a project or an uncredited inquisition into some particular subject.

The reason I ask is that research is not the same as coursework. Sorry if this sounds condescending (I honestly don't mean it to be) but yeah it takes a certain skill-set and mindset to go well in research considering that there are no answers (or maybe only partial ones) for what you are trying to solve, so stumbling around running into brick walls and feeling somewhat overpowered is a normal experience when doing research.

If you are the type that is used to facing brick walls and deal with that in a positive way and use curiosity and tenacity to your advantage, then I think from those attributes that if you can demonstrate that then you will improve your odds of getting in a research program and seeing it through to your defense of the thesis.

I know that research isn't the same as taking a course. I'm applying for at least one REU for this coming summer.