Do Photons Attract Each Other?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of whether photons attract each other, particularly in the context of their motion in gravitational fields. Participants explore various scenarios, including parallel, anti-parallel, and perpendicular beams of light, and reference both linearized and non-linear theories of gravity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents an equation of motion for a photon and suggests that the result should hold in non-linear theory, questioning how to prove this.
  • Another participant argues that the result may not hold in non-linear orders due to the energy-momentum of photons affecting spacetime curvature.
  • A different participant asserts that there are proofs in the literature supporting the idea that parallel light beams do not attract each other, while anti-parallel beams do attract.
  • One participant clarifies that the referenced paper discusses the attraction of anti-parallel beams and expresses uncertainty about the case of perpendicular beams.
  • Another participant notes a lack of context regarding the assumptions about the metric being used in the discussion.
  • It is mentioned that for two light beams in a center of mass system with opposite momentum, attraction is expected.
  • A participant references a problem from Lightman’s book that states there is no attractive gravitational force between two thin parallel beams of light in linearized theory, and mentions that the result holds to higher orders.
  • One participant expresses confusion about the original post's reference to the z direction and clarifies that the second referenced paper establishes interactions for beam orientations other than parallel.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the behavior of photons in various configurations, with some asserting that parallel beams do not attract while others suggest that non-parallel configurations may lead to attraction. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of perpendicular beams and the implications of non-linear effects.

Contextual Notes

There are missing assumptions regarding the metric and the specific conditions under which the claims are made. The discussion also highlights the complexity of gravitational interactions among light beams, particularly in non-linear regimes.

ergospherical
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Then the equation of motion for a photon in the beam (moving parallel to the ##x## axis) is\begin{align*}
\ddot{y} = - \Gamma^y_{\mu \nu} \dot{x}^{\mu} \dot{x}^{\nu} = -[\Gamma^y_{00} + \Gamma^y_{xx} + 2\Gamma^y_{0x}](\dot{x}^0)^2
\end{align*}and similar for ##z##. In the linearised theory (##h_{\mu \nu} \equiv g_{\mu \nu} - \eta_{\mu \nu}##) we have ##h_{00} = h_{xx} = - h_{0x}## which after some algebra implies that the right hand side vanishes. This result should still hold in the non-linearised theory, but how can one prove this?
 
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ergospherical said:
This result should still hold in the non-linearised theory, but how can one prove this?
I do not think it hold in non linear orders because photons have energy momentum thus curve space time geometry.
 
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Actually, I just realized I misunderstood something about the OP. The paper I referenced, and the result that is relatively well known, is that parallel light beams whose momentum is in the same direction do not attract each other. It is also known that for for beams with opposite momentum (anti parallel beams), there is attraction. The OP seems to be asking about perpendicular beams. I never thought about this case before, and I don’t know the answer beyond the linearized argument presented in the OP.

Here is a reference covering the antiparallel case:

https://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/9811052
 
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ergospherical said:
the equation of motion for a photon in the beam (moving parallel to the ##x## axis) is
It seems like there is some missing context here. What assumption is being made about the metric?
 
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PAllen said:
It is also known that for for beams with opposite momentum (anti parallel beams), there is attraction.
For two light beams except parallel case we have COM system where two beams has opposite momentum. Then according to the above two light beams attract.
 
PeterDonis said:
It seems like there is some missing context here.
This is another problem from Lightman’s book, the full statement is:
Show that in linearised theory there is no attractive gravitational force between two thin parallel beams of light.
which is fairly straightforward to answer once you figure out what the components of the SET are (because ##\square \bar{h}_{ab} = -16\pi T_{ab}## in linearised theory). The geometry I have in mind is nothing but two beams parallel to the ##x## axis but with different (fixed) ##y## and ##z## coordinates.

There’s an additional remark at the end saying that the result in fact also holds to higher orders - the quite surprisingly simple justification is in the first paper @PAllen linked to.

The question about the anti-parallel and perpendicular cases is interesting. I think I will come back to them on the weekend because I have too many other assignments to complete at the present!
 
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Oh, so you were interested in the parallel case. Your comment in OP about z direction confused me. Anyway, the analysis in the second paper I referenced establishes that any beam orientation except parallel will have net interaction between the beams. However, it only gives an actual solution for anti parallel and parallel cases.
 

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