Do Singularities Prove Actual Infinities Exist?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of singularities in the context of the Big Bang model and black holes, specifically questioning whether these singularities imply the existence of actual infinities in reality. Participants explore the implications of singularities being infinitely hot or dense and consider the nature of infinities in both mathematical and physical contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the existence of singularities in the Big Bang model proves that actual infinities exist in reality, particularly in relation to concepts like infinite density and temperature.
  • Another participant suggests that the popular science media may sensationalize the concept of singularities, noting that current Big Bang models do not definitively describe singularities and that physics breaks down at the Planck time.
  • There is a mention of the belief that quantum gravity might resolve the infinite nature of singularities, indicating that some participants think singularities may not exist in a true mathematical sense.
  • A participant expresses curiosity about the relationship between the concept of infinity and the physical properties of black holes, indicating a shared interest in the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the existence and implications of singularities, with some suggesting that they do not exist in a true mathematical description of the universe, while others remain uncertain about the nature of infinities in reality.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about singularities and their implications, as well as the dependence on definitions of infinity and singularity. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical or physical complexities involved.

Matt1128Y
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Please correct me if I'm wrong in any sense. And please forgive me if I'm posting this in the wrong forum.

I guess my general question is, presuming the big bang model is correct (one that includes a singularity), does that prove actual infinites exist? In other words, we know infinites exist in mathematics, but do infinites exist in reality? To give an example, could an infinite number of marbles exist (and what would happen if you took 1 away or added 1)?

When I read unsophisticated books about the big bang, they often describe singularity as being infinitely hot and possessing infinite curvature. But in what sense are they using the word infinite? Wouldn't it have taken an infinite amount of time for a singularity that was infinitely hot to cool down? I also have a hypothetical question. If a universe containing more matter than ours was extrapolated backward to a singularity, would that singularity possesses space-time curvature and heat equal to the singularity of our universe?

Thank you.
 
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You have 6 questions.
Bring this down to one to start.
 
pallidin said:
You have 6 questions.
Bring this down to one to start.

I apologize. I wasn't aware of there being a question limit per post.
 
It is more favorable to ask one question at a time.
With such you are much more likely to get responsible answers.

Sure, I've seen multiple question posts, but those are difficult to deal with.
Keep it simple.
Then, ask the next question.
 
Actually I wonder the same. I believed infinites only exists in concept, but now you remind me of how a black hole has infinite density. Any more knowledgeable comments on this?
 
I think what you're experiencing is a bit of sensationalism on the part of the popular science media. Let me clarify.

Current Big Bang models say absolutely nothing about a singularity. All they say is that when the universe was young, it was smaller and hotter. You can continue saying this until you get to around the Planck time, at which point the physics you used to derive this model no longer make sense.

This is the point at which quantum gravity becomes important, but I don't think anyone seriously proposes a model containing a legitimate singularity.

Similarly with the singularities in black holes, most people think that quantum gravity corrections will resolve their infinite nature, as the density comes to be around the Planck density.

To sum: Nobody seriously thinks singularities exist in the "true" mathematical description of the universe (whatever that means...).
 
Nabeshin said:
To sum: Nobody seriously thinks singularities exist in the "true" mathematical description of the universe (whatever that means...).

Yeah that is just what I thought!
Very interesting physics!
 

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