Do TOE candidates predict SM parameters?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around whether theories of everything (TOEs) can predict parameters of the Standard Model (SM) of particle physics, including the nature of their relationship with concepts like the multiverse. Participants explore various TOE candidates, including loop quantum gravity, string theory, and non-commutative geometry, and their potential to derive SM parameters from first principles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants wonder if TOE candidates can predict all or some SM parameters, or if they merely correlate with existing theories like the Koide formula.
  • One participant notes that Kaluza-Klein theory predicts some SM parameters inaccurately, leading to its abandonment in mainstream physics.
  • Another participant emphasizes the complexity of explaining SM parameters, suggesting that string theory might provide a unified framework but faces challenges in making specific predictions due to quantum corrections.
  • A discussion on CP violation highlights different perspectives on how asymmetry might arise in a TOE, with options including initial conditions, inherent properties of the framework, or symmetry breaking across multiple universes.
  • Some participants discuss Connes' non-commutative geometry as a TOE candidate that claims to predict SM parameters, though there are questions about its accuracy and the nature of its predictions.
  • Concerns are raised about the classification of non-commutative geometries and their implications for understanding the SM, particularly regarding the Higgs mass prediction.
  • One participant proposes a revolutionary idea of representing spacetime abstractly, challenging traditional manifold concepts and suggesting new ways to think about symmetries in the context of TOEs.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the ability of TOE candidates to predict SM parameters, with no consensus reached. Some theories are discussed positively, while others are critiqued for their limitations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the efficacy of different approaches and the nature of CP violation.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of deriving SM parameters and the potential for multiple competing theories to explain various aspects of particle physics. The discussion reflects ongoing debates in theoretical physics without definitive conclusions.

  • #31
My bad, octonions...
 
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  • #32
no, not even octonions ;-)

octonions are a divison algebra w/o zero divisors; but they are not associative
 
Last edited:
  • #33
Another try. Sedenions :)
 
  • #34
yes, they have zero divisors and are not a division algebra!
 

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