Do we have any idea what would happen at theoretical absolute zero?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the theoretical implications of absolute zero, particularly concerning energy states and forces exerted on objects at this temperature. Participants explore concepts related to thermal energy, quantum mechanics, and the practical limitations of reaching absolute zero.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether an object at absolute zero, having no energy, could provide an equal but opposite force when struck by another object.
  • Another participant asserts that absolute zero is a theoretical limit that cannot be reached, emphasizing that quantum effects prevent any object from having zero thermal energy.
  • A request for clarification is made regarding the assertion that objects do not always produce an equal and opposite force upon being struck.
  • Further elaboration indicates that while quantum mechanics implies no object can have exactly zero thermal energy, it is often simplified in discussions as having zero thermal energy for practical purposes.
  • It is noted that even at absolute zero, an object can still possess other forms of energy, such as mass energy, and can exert an opposing force when struck, as the energy comes from the striking object rather than the object at absolute zero.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of absolute zero, particularly regarding the nature of energy and forces at this temperature. There is no consensus on the interpretations of energy states or the practicalities of reaching absolute zero.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding absolute zero, particularly the dependence on quantum mechanics and the idealization of reaching such a state, which cannot be realized in practice.

psuedoben
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i have a simple question, but I'm not sure it can be answered with our knowledge of absolute zero: if an object were to exist at absolute zero, that means it has no energy, correct? if that is true, then if you struck something at absolute zero with another object, would the object with no energy be able to provide an equal but opposite force?
 
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No we don't - that is a theoretical limiting value which can never be reached.
An object cannot have zero thermal energy - quantum effects stop that from happening.

Note: even objects at reasonable temperatures do not always produce and equal and opposite force on being struck.
 
could you elaborate on that last point you made? about there not always being an equal and opposite force? thanks!
 
psuedoben said:
if an object were to exist at absolute zero, that means it has no energy, correct?

Not when quantum mechanics is taken into account, no. As Simon Bridge said, quantum effects mean that no object can ever have exactly zero thermal energy. However, for many purposes the quantum effects can be ignored; that's why you will often find sources saying (incorrectly, strictly speaking) that objects at absolute zero have zero thermal energy (instead of saying that they have the minimum possible thermal energy allowed by their quantum states).

Also, as Simon said, there is no way to cool an object down to exactly absolute zero; so if we consider the properties of an object at exactly absolute zero, we are considering an idealized limiting case that can never be realized in practice. (That doesn't mean it's not a useful idealization; for many purposes it simplifies things greatly to assume an idealized object with zero temperature.)

There is also another key thing to bear in mind: when we say that an object at absolute zero has "zero energy" (subject to the corrections related to quantum mechanics, as above), we mean zero thermal energy (note that both Simon and I were careful to include that qualifier). The object can still have other kinds of energy that are not thermal: for example, the energy contained in its mass.

psuedoben said:
if you struck something at absolute zero with another object, would the object with no energy be able to provide an equal but opposite force?

The object would still be able to provide an opposing force, because the energy involved doesn't come from the object; it comes from the work being done by striking it. For example, if you hit the object with a hammer, the hammer has kinetic energy, and that kinetic energy can do work against the repulsive force between the atoms in the hammer and the atoms in the object, even if the object itself has zero thermal energy.
 
Last edited:
PeterDonis said:
Not when quantum mechanics is taken into account, no. As Simon Bridge said, quantum effects mean that no object can ever have exactly zero thermal energy. However, for many purposes the quantum effects can be ignored; that's why you will often find sources saying (incorrectly, strictly speaking) that objects at absolute zero have zero thermal energy (instead of saying that they have the minimum possible thermal energy allowed by their quantum states).

Also, as Simon said, there is no way to cool an object down to exactly absolute zero; so if we consider the properties of an object at exactly absolute zero, we are considered an idealized limiting case that can never be realized in practice. (That doesn't mean it's not a useful idealization; for many purposes it simplifies things greatly to assume an idealized object with zero temperature.)

There is also another key thing to bear in mind: when we say that an object at absolute zero has "zero energy" (subject to the corrections related to quantum mechanics, as above), we mean zero thermal energy (note that both Simon and I were careful to include that qualifier). The object can still have other kinds of energy that are not thermal: for example, the energy contained in its mass.
The object would still be able to provide an opposing force, because the energy involved doesn't come from the object; it comes from the work being done by striking it. For example, if you hit the object with a hammer, the hammer has kinetic energy, and that kinetic energy can do work against the repulsive force between the atoms in the hammer and the atoms in the object, even if the object itself has zero thermal energy.
Thank you! that clears a lot of things up.
 

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