Do you dream constantly? Does dreamless sleep even exist?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of dreaming and the concept of "dreamless sleep." Participants explore whether dreaming occurs in all stages of sleep, including non-REM (nREM) sleep, and question the validity of the idea that dreamless sleep exists. The conversation touches on scientific research, theories of memory activation, and the classification of valid sources in sleep studies.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that dreaming occurs in all stages of sleep, not just REM, and that the concept of "dreamless sleep" may be a misconception.
  • There is a suggestion that if dreamless sleep exists, it is not a complete absence of thought, but rather a state with thoughts similar to those experienced in dreams.
  • Questions arise regarding the validity of sources for scientific research on dreaming, with some participants emphasizing the need for mainstream scientific studies and peer-reviewed articles.
  • One participant mentions the memory activation theory as a relevant concept in understanding dreaming.
  • Concerns are raised about the classification of certain sources as inappropriate, with discussions about what constitutes a valid source, including the distinction between .gov URLs and peer-reviewed articles.
  • There is acknowledgment of the presence of rumination during nREM sleep, characterized by less vivid thoughts compared to dreams.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the existence of dreamless sleep or the nature of dreaming across sleep stages. Multiple competing views remain regarding the classification of sources and the interpretation of scientific findings.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the definitions of valid sources and the criteria for scientific legitimacy, indicating a lack of clarity in the discussion about what constitutes reliable information in the context of sleep research.

CherokeeInjun
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Do you dream constantly? Does "dreamless sleep" even exist?

We know that...
We can dream in all 5 stages of sleep (not just REM)
We move around very often throughout the night (all in nREM since you're paralyzed in REM)
Memories are sorted out constantly in all stages of sleep.
And if you look at history of sleep "research"
First we thought that you dream once or twice every night and most of it is dreamless because we didn't remember dreams
Then that we dream throughout REM.
Then that most dreams are in REM and some in nREM.
I think that it's reasonable to say that you dream constantly and there is no "dreamless sleep"
Or if there is, it's almost certainly not a thoughtless void like most people imagine, and the thoughts in it are very similar to dream thoughts (perhaps not connected in a dream...?)
 
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Also does that mean you dream when you're awake?
 


Have you looked online for any actual scientific research?
 


Yes, that's what i got.
 


CherokeeInjun said:
Yes, that's what i got.
Show me the sources please, links will be fine. Remember, they must be mainstream scientific studies.
 


Well one of the links I gave you is the memory activation theory.
The rest I found by google, so I can try to find them again.
 


CherokeeInjun said:
Well one of the links I gave you is the memory activation theory.
The rest I found by google, so I can try to find them again.
That was deleted as an inappropriate source.

Thanks, I'm curious what you've been reading.
 


csun.edu/~vcpsy00h/students/dreams.htm
According to this (and other sources I forget) you dream in all stages.
Also why was that an inappropriate source?
 
CherokeeInjun said:
csun.edu/~vcpsy00h/students/dreams.htm
According to this (and other sources I forget) you dream in all stages.
Also why was that an inappropriate source?
That is also not a valid source, it's a student paper.

This is a valid source.

http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/brain_basics/understanding_sleep.htm#dreaming
 
  • #10


There are a few others (but none of them are .gov)
What exactly constitutes a "valid source"?
Just a .gov URL?
 
  • #11


CherokeeInjun said:
There are a few others (but none of them are .gov)
What exactly constitutes a "valid source"?
Just a .gov URL?
Also peer reviewed articles in an accepted journal found here http://science.thomsonreuters.com/mjl/. In some cases an article that cites studies found in such journals, as long as the article is accurate and isn't an opinion piece that deviates from the actual study's conclusions. Websites that contain well known and easily verifiable scientific information.

What we don't accept as sources are opinion pieces, speculation, personal theories, and anecdotes.
 
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  • #12


CherokeeInjun said:
I think that it's reasonable to say that you dream constantly and there is no "dreamless sleep"
Or if there is, it's almost certainly not a thoughtless void like most people imagine, and the thoughts in it are very similar to dream thoughts (perhaps not connected in a dream...?)


It's right that we have rumination during nREM - not vivid dreams but desultory thoughts.

This has been discussed before.

https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=3296965&postcount=12
 

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