Does an N-Cube have Surface Area?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of surface area in higher-dimensional cubes, specifically focusing on the properties of their boundaries and the terminology used to describe these boundaries. Participants explore the implications of dimensionality on geometric properties, including the nature of flux in four-dimensional space and the distinction between surface area and volume in higher dimensions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether a four-dimensional cube has a true surface area or if it should be referred to as a surface volume.
  • There is a suggestion that the boundary of an n-dimensional cube is not a surface but has a three-dimensional volume.
  • Participants discuss whether the n-1 dimensional boundary can be classified as a hypersurface, with varying definitions of what constitutes a hypersurface.
  • One participant notes that the terminology of "area" versus "volume" for the boundary of a four-dimensional region is a matter of convention, advocating for the use of n or n-1 dimensional "measure."
  • There is a question regarding the nature of light waves in four-dimensional space, specifically whether they would have a flux through a volume instead of a surface area.
  • Participants mention that the solution of the wave equation differs between even and odd dimensions, prompting inquiries into the reasons behind this distinction.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the definition of hypersurfaces, with references to topological manifolds and the relationship between manifolds and their dimensionality.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definitions and implications of surface area, volume, and hypersurfaces in higher dimensions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precise terminology and properties associated with these concepts.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about dimensionality, the definitions of terms like "hypersurface," and the implications of these definitions on physical phenomena such as light propagation in four-dimensional space.

dimensionless
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Let's say I have a four dimensional cube. Would it have a true surface area? I'm wondering if maybe it would have a surface volume rather than a surface area.
 
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its boundary is not a surface but does have a 3d volume
 
Would this n-1 dimensional boundary be a hypersurface?
 
Rasalhague said:
Would this n-1 dimensional boundary be a hypersurface?

Depend what you mean by hypersurface. Explain.
 
In n dimensional geometry, a "hypersurface" is the n-1 dimensional boundary of a bounded n-dimensional region.

As for dimensionless's original question, its really a matter of convention whether you call the 3 measure of the boundary of a 4 dimensional region "area" or "volume". That's why most people just talk about n or n-1 dimensional "measure".
 
wofsy said:
its boundary is not a surface but does have a 3d volume

Does that mean that a light wave in 4D would have a flux through a volume rather than a surface area?
 
dimensionless said:
Does that mean that a light wave in 4D would have a flux through a volume rather than a surface area?

In general there would be an exact analogue of flux but with light there is a Lorentz metric and I am not sure how that would work.
 
Solution of the wave equation is quite different in even dimensions vs. odd dimensions.
 
g_edgar said:
Solution of the wave equation is quite different in even dimensions vs. odd dimensions.

Why would that be?
 
  • #10
wofsy said:
Depend what you mean by hypersurface. Explain.

I had in mind an (n - 1)-dimensional "bit" of the given n-dimensional space. HallsofIvy's "the n-1 dimensional boundary of a bounded n-dimensional region" sounds like what I was thinking but more precisely worded that I'd have managed. Wikipedia calls a surface a "two dimensional topological manifold". Would a hypersurface then be an (n - 1)-dimensional topological manifold (and is every manifold at least a topological manifold)?
 
  • #11
Rasalhague said:
I had in mind an (n - 1)-dimensional "bit" of the given n-dimensional space. HallsofIvy's "the n-1 dimensional boundary of a bounded n-dimensional region" sounds like what I was thinking but more precisely worded that I'd have managed. Wikipedia calls a surface a "two dimensional topological manifold". Would a hypersurface then be an (n - 1)-dimensional topological manifold (and is every manifold at least a topological manifold)?

Every manifold is at least topological but may have additional structure such as a differentiable structure.

A submanifold of dimension n-1 is a called a hypersurface. You may be aware that you can have submanifolds of lower dimension as well. For instance in 4 space the Klein bottle can be embedded as 2 dimensional surface.
 

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