Does background radiation have a diurnal variation?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the potential diurnal variation of background radiation, particularly in relation to temperature and humidity effects. Participants explore observations from a citizen scientist's data and reference existing literature on the topic, including the influence of environmental factors on radiation levels.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant reports a daily cycle in background radiation data from their lab, suggesting a possible diurnal variation.
  • Another participant emphasizes the need to control for temperature dependence in detectors before drawing conclusions about the observed cycle.
  • A third participant critiques the linked data for lacking temperature considerations, indicating a potential flaw in the quality of the measurements.
  • A later reply references a paper that claims temperature and humidity influence alpha and gamma radiation, noting a similar daily cycle pattern, with higher levels in the morning and lower in the afternoon.
  • Concerns are raised about the reliability of citizen science data, particularly regarding the interpretation of results and the proper use of scientific instruments like GM counters.
  • One participant discusses the statistical distribution of count rates, arguing against the validity of a two-distribution hypothesis presented by the citizen scientist.
  • Another participant points out issues with the seasonal accumulation of data and the lack of consideration for seasonal variations in radon levels.
  • Technical details regarding the units of measurement and the sensitivity of detectors to different types of radiation are also discussed, highlighting potential misunderstandings in the original data presentation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of the citizen scientist's findings, with some supporting the idea of diurnal variation influenced by environmental factors, while others challenge the methodology and interpretation of the data. No consensus is reached on the reliability of the observations or the conclusions drawn from them.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of control for temperature and humidity in the measurements, potential seasonal variations in radon levels, and the interpretation of statistical distributions in the data. The discussion highlights the complexities involved in measuring and interpreting background radiation.

CWatters
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On another forum someone has been reporting on their efforts to characterise the background radiation in their lab prior to running some experiments. They don't have much data but what they have appears to have a daily cycle. They weren't looking for one and they haven't done enough work to eliminate all possible causes, but just for interest I went looking for other reports and found someone with many years of data and what looks to me like a very similar pattern.

See graph "Radiation by local solar time"" about way down this page..

http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/cosmic/

Is this something that's understood?
 
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Given that many detectors and readouts have a temperature dependence, I would want to control those before jumping to any conclusion.
 
The linked website doesn’t discuss temperature at the measurement site at all. That doesn’t pass even a very rudimentary quality check.
 
Understood.

Late last night i found a paper here...

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...Vaw2f7KpRvFpKDF4_0uZ-XlQ-&cshid=1542333222747

Which claims temperature and humidity cause a daily cycle in both alpha and gamma radiation and references other papers. The cycle appears very similar, higher AM and lower PM with quite a rapid change just before mid day.

They suggest temperature effects the rate at which radon is released. I don't see where they check for the effect of temperature on sensitivity either but perhaps I missed it. Need to read it again.
 
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Darn it. Anyone know how to make links found by Google work?

That paper is titled "Diurnal variation of radon progeny".
 
This is another example of why "citizen scientists" should not post results of their "investigations" without a review from a qualified expert. It is also another reason to keep scientific instruments out of the hands of amateurs. GM counters are simple to use but problematic when interpreting the results.

His concern and musings over the asymmetry in the count rate distribution are a wasted effort. The distribution is not exactly Gaussian but Poisson which still manifests a slight asymmetry at his count rate. His two distribution hypothesis is fallacious and should not be used for this experiment.

The detector is sensitive to all types of ionizing radiation which in this case have different sources whose radiation comes from different directions. The efficiency is directionally dependent.

The data were accumulated over the complete seasonal cycle. He is at a high elevation so during the winter the house is closed tightly sequestering the air and probably allowing radon to build up to higher levels than in the summer. He merges all the data without any concern for the possibility of seasonal variations.

And finally he states results in uR/hr (a unit of exposure rate) and compares his results to standard values without concern to the units. Environmental dose rates are given in rem/yr. not R/yr. GM detectors are typically used for surveying gamma/xrays and the scales are appropriately labeled in R/min or R/hr. The detector is sensitive to betas and alpha but in the case it is used for these only counts/minute are appropriate since exposure rate is defined only for gamma/xrays. To convert counts/min to rem/minute you must know specifics of each type of radiation and their relative abundance.

I should add for anyone who later reads this thread and may want to buy a Geiger Counter. The source provide with GM counters is what is know as a check source and only used for assuring that the counter is working properly at least on one scale and is NOT a calibration source and to emphasize that the reading in mR/hr is only for gamma/xrays which may also be only correct for a certain energy range of that radiation. Many GM counters will not detect Alpha or Beta radiation.
 

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