Does CH3NH2 undergo resonance? Why?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of resonance in organic molecules, specifically focusing on CH3NH2 (methylamine) and CH3NO2 (nitromethane). Participants explore the conditions necessary for resonance to occur and examine the implications of Lewis structures in these cases.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants explain that resonance involves the ability to draw multiple Lewis structures for a molecule, which requires the sharing of multiple bonds.
  • It is noted that CH3NH2 has filled valence shells for carbon and nitrogen with only single bonds, making resonance difficult to establish without violating the octet rule.
  • One participant suggests that to create a resonance structure for CH3NH2, one would need to consider double-bonding from nitrogen to carbon, which would result in a pentavalent carbon, deemed unacceptable in Lewis structures.
  • In contrast, for CH3NO2, resonance is acknowledged to exist in the nitro group (-NO2), with formal charges present on nitrogen and oxygen, although the carbon cannot be pentavalent.
  • Participants discuss a specific Lewis structure for H2C-CH=NO2, noting the presence of formal charges and the challenges associated with separating these charges, which may indicate a high-energy isomer that contributes little to the actual structure of the molecule.
  • A participant questions whether resonance structures that involve pentavalent carbon can be considered valid, leading to a clarification that elements in the first row of the periodic table should not exceed four bonds.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that resonance cannot involve pentavalent carbon, but there is no consensus on the resonance characteristics of CH3NH2, with some arguing it does not exhibit resonance while others explore the implications of potential structures.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in the understanding of resonance structures, particularly regarding the octet rule and the implications of formal charges in Lewis structures. There is an acknowledgment of the complexity involved in determining the validity of resonance structures.

kay
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And what are the conditions for resonance to take place?
 
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kay said:
And what are the conditions for resonance to take place?

Resonance ususally refers to the ability to draw more than one Lewis structure for a given connectivity of a molecule. It involves the sharing of multiple bonds in different ways within the framework. In the case of H3C-NH2, you have filled valence of C and N and all of the H-es, all with single bonds. The only way to draw any kind of resonance structure for this molecule would be to include some double-bonding from the lone pair of the Nitrogen to the Carbon, but this would give you pentavalent C, which is a no-no in Lewis Structures.
 
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Quantum Defect said:
Resonance ususally refers to the ability to draw more than one Lewis structure for a given connectivity of a molecule. It involves the sharing of multiple bonds in different ways within the framework. In the case of H3C-NH2, you have filled valence of C and N and all of the H-es, all with single bonds. The only way to draw any kind of resonance structure for this molecule would be to include some double-bonding from the lone pair of the Nitrogen to the Carbon, but this would give you pentavalent C, which is a no-no in Lewis Structures.
And what about CH3NO2?
 

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kay said:
And what about CH3NO2?

For H3C-NO2, there is resonance in the -NO2 group, but you can't make C pentavalent. On the N, there is a formal charge of +1 and a formal charge of -1 on one of the oxygens.

For the picture that you show: H2CCHNO2, there are more resonance structures possible, but one of these will not be particularly important.

e.g. H2C-CH=NO2 [Each N-O bond is a single bond]
This Lewis Structure has +1 formal charges on the end Carbon, and the Nitrogen, and -1 formal charge on each of the oxygens. Separation of many, many charges like this is something that is difficult to do -- i.e. you would need to do work to separate the many charges, so chemists would say that this is a high-energy isomer, and does not contribute much to the true picture of what the real molecule looks like. For example, the charge density on the end carbon is probably pretty close to what you would expect for a neutral carbon, and the terminal C-C bond is probably closer to what you would expect for a double bond, than a single bond as drawn above.
 
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Quantum Defect said:
For H3C-NO2, there is resonance in the -NO2 group, but you can't make C pentavalent. On the N, there is a formal charge of +1 and a formal charge of -1 on one of the oxygens.

For the picture that you show: H2CCHNO2, there are more resonance structures possible, but one of these will not be particularly important.

e.g. H2C-CH=NO2 [Each N-O bond is a single bond]
This Lewis Structure has +1 formal charges on the end Carbon, and the Nitrogen, and -1 formal charge on each of the oxygens. Separation of many, many charges like this is something that is difficult to do -- i.e. you would need to do work to separate the many charges, so chemists would say that this is a high-energy isomer, and does not contribute much to the true picture of what the real molecule looks like. For example, the charge density on the end carbon is probably pretty close to what you would expect for a neutral carbon, and the terminal C-C bond is probably closer to what you would expect for a double bond, than a single bond as drawn above.

So I can always assume that whenever a resonance structure has a pentavalent carbon, it doesn't exist?
 
kay said:
So I can always assume that whenever a resonance structure has a pentavalent carbon, it doesn't exist?

Octet or less only (four electron pairs as bonds/lone pairs) for elements in the first complete row (BCNOF). Five bonds (pairs of electrons) are out for these elements, including Carbon.
 

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