Does it suffice to show these relations?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the logical implications necessary to prove the equivalence of three statements regarding sets: $A \cap B = A$, $A \subset B$, and $A \cup B = B$. Participants explore the sufficiency of proving certain implications to establish this equivalence.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether it is necessary to prove all implications: $A \cap B = A \rightarrow A \subset B$, $A \subset B \rightarrow A \cap B = A$, $A \subset B \rightarrow A \cup B = B$, $A \cup B = B \rightarrow A \subset B$, and $A \cup B = B \rightarrow A \cap B = A$.
  • Another participant suggests that to show $P \iff Q \iff R$, it suffices to prove $P \implies Q$, $Q \implies R$, and $R \implies P$, indicating that the order of implications can vary.
  • A later reply emphasizes that proving $Q \implies R$ and $R \implies P$ is sufficient to conclude $Q \implies P$ without needing to show it explicitly.
  • One participant inquires if proving $Q \implies P$ in addition to the other implications would be incorrect, to which another participant responds that it is not wrong and that implications can be shown in any order.
  • It is noted that choosing an ordering that simplifies the proof is generally preferred.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the sufficiency of proving certain implications to establish equivalence, but there is some uncertainty regarding the necessity of proving all possible implications explicitly.

Contextual Notes

Participants express varying interpretations of the implications needed for the proof, and there is a lack of consensus on whether all implications must be shown explicitly or if some can be inferred.

evinda
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Hi! (Wave)

If I want to prove that $A \cap B=A \text{ iff } A \subset B \text{ iff } A \cup B=B$.
Do I have to prove the following:
$A \cap B=A \rightarrow A \subset B$, $A \subset B \rightarrow A \cap B=A, A \subset B \rightarrow A \cup B=B, A \cup B=B \rightarrow A \subset B $ and $A \cup B=B \rightarrow A \cap B=A$ ? :confused:
 
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To show $P\iff Q\iff R$ it is sufficient to prove, for example, $P\implies Q$, $Q\implies R$ and $R\implies P$. At least three implications are necessary, but they can be chosen in different ways.
 
Evgeny.Makarov said:
To show $P\iff Q\iff R$ it is sufficient to prove, for example, $P\implies Q$, $Q\implies R$ and $R\implies P$. At least three implications are necessary, but they can be chosen in different ways.

So, don't we have to show, for example, $Q \Rightarrow P$ ? (Thinking)
 
evinda said:
So, don't we have to show, for example, $Q \Rightarrow P$ ? (Thinking)

If you can show $Q \Rightarrow R$ and $R \Rightarrow P$, that immediately implies $Q \Rightarrow P$; it is unnecessary to show it explicitly.
 
magneto said:
If you can show $Q \Rightarrow R$ and $R \Rightarrow P$, that immediately implies $Q \Rightarrow P$; it is unnecessary to show it explicitly.

A ok.. But, if I would prove also $Q \Rightarrow P$, would it be wrong? :confused:
 
evinda said:
A ok.. But, if I would prove also $Q \Rightarrow P$, would it be wrong? :confused:

It is not wrong. You can show the implications in any order: E.g $Q \Rightarrow P \Rightarrow R \Rightarrow Q$, or $R \Rightarrow P \Rightarrow Q \Rightarrow R$.

In fact, you usually want to choose an ordering that makes the proof the simplest if possible.
 

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